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The Droeshout Portrait : a new discovery ?


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You beat me to it. I decided to translate the French, Italian and Latin phrases and came up with

The disguised hypocrite

The fraudulent always covers up the fraud. The vain hypocrite goes looking for praise

and the one Rob translated under the emblem

The hypocrite puts on a false appearance of piety (diiferent but the same)

I did these translations yesterday and decided that, in this case, viewing it as a reference to Bacon and his disguised authorship (of Shakespeare) is too much of a reach. I decided not to say anything, just to keep that conclusion to myself and then woke up this morning and scrolled past this (see image below).

Then came and saw what RC had written. The world moves in mysterious ways.

On this occasion Yann, due to the repeated use of the word hypocrite I don't think this emblem is a cryptic reference to Bacon, even though it's on page 100, however It's obviously for each person to form their own opinion and thanks for spotting it and all your other incredible observations. Best to throw everything out there as one thing often leads to another  - even if some are dead ends.

I wrote to Adam McLean to see what he knows about Dr Panurgus. Not sure if he'll reply but that engraving seems as if it could hold a 'smoking gun' link due to the Droeshout connection.

 

image.png.4f17826e090d321b01afd5e594265ddc.png

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3 hours ago, Kate said:

On this occasion Yann, due to the repeated use of the word hypocrite I don't think this emblem is a cryptic reference to Bacon, even though it's on page 100, however It's obviously for each person to form their own opinion and thanks for spotting it and all your other incredible observations.

And CJ said, "Suggesting that this is pointing to a secret in an Shakespeare authorship question is an example of trying to interpret something with a desired end in mind, imo. That is almost always possible with images rich in symbolism. "

Curious there are two masks, one in hand and one on face. I had noticed the eyes on the figure looked blank. Then I realized he is wearing a mask!

image.png.74700b52e67f86da0ea99c211cf0b14c.png

Hypocrite does rule out Bacon, it does not rule out Willy Shakspur.

CJ said that suggesting the Authorship connection is "trying to interpret something with a desired end in mind." I say it is not "trying", it is "doing" that. I am interpreting something with a desired result in mind, I'm not trying. LOL

CJ also said, "That is almost always possible with images rich in symbolism."

I would suggest that a perfect image rich in symbolism could be interpreted in infinite ways eternally. No matter who, when, or where, a perfect image would be interpreted by the viewer so it mattered to them at that moment.

This Pro Forma emblem we are speaking about certainly had a specific meaning with some wriggle room as created by the artist. Yet it is also like a mirror, or window into magical world ideas and beliefs of the beholder.

Hmmmm, I'm wondering why the person holding the mask is also wearing one.

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Hi Yann, Kate and Rob,

Given the proximity of date, namely that the emblem is found in the 1624 edition which appeared shortly after the 1623 Shakespeare First Folio with its Droeshout Mask (which was also the same year (1624) in which the Cryptomenytices appeared with the frontispiece depicting FB giving Shakespere one of his plays), there is at least some likelihood, the Double Mask Emblem alludes to the Droeshout Mask and FB's authorship of the Shakespeare works.

I also note that Kate has very understandably raised the objection concerning the word hypocrite which prompted me to take a quick look on Google for a precise definition that yielded the following:

1] inconsistency, pretence, blame, and complacency

2] a hypocritical person is often more caught up in image than truth, they tend to speak or act one way in public and a different way in private

I am heavily inclined to agree that the word hypocrite with its various interpretations and meanings does not rule out the interpretation that it alludes to Lord Bacon and his mask William Shakspere of Stratford, in fact, if anything it strengthens it.

In adopting a living literary mask Lord Bacon participated in a 'pretence' and there is no doubt whatsoever that he often said or acted one way in public and a different way in private, hence an example of the usual interpretation of the word hypocrisy, something fleshed out in his essay Of Simulation and Dissimulation.

inconsistency, pretence, blame, and complacency

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Hi everyone,

As I said yesterday, this book was my very first contact with Books of Emblems in 2014 a long time before the beginning of my Baconian/Shakespearean Research.

I think that it is in 2018 that, as I was taking a look to Shakespeare's Sonnets, the Sonnet 46 (The Eye - the Heart) brought this book back to my memory.

It is at that time that I discovered there were, interestingly, in Emblemata Sacra one Emblem depicting a man with a Shakespeare's like head holding a mask on his head (well spotted Rob 😉) and a mask in his hand and, a few pages after, another Emblem depicting a Francis Bacon's like figure with the motto Ne Quid Nimis .

I did not know yet that Ne Quid Nimis was a reference to Terence in Andria Act I 30-35.

File:Terence Andria 1.1 Vat3868f4v.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Terence_Andria_1.1_Vat3868f4v.jpg?uselang=fr

(Notice the masks)

Later on, I understood that Mediocra firma and Ne Quid Nimis could be linked.

Here is the printer mark of Gilles Robinot Ier (French printer from the 16th century)

that links Ne Quid Nimis to the flight of Icarus

http://www.bvh.univ-tours.fr/batyr/beta/notice_devise.php?devise=260

And Chapter XXVII of Francis Bacon's Book "Wisdome of the Ancients" is :

The Flight of Icarus, also Scylla and Charybdis, or the Middle Way.

https://www.bartleby.com/lit-hub/of-the-wisdom-of-the-ancients/xxvii-the-flight-of-icarus-also-scylla-and-charybdis-francis-bacon-15611626-of-the-wisdom-of-the-ancients-1857/

Francis Bacon's motto is Mediocria firma ... The Middle Way is safe !

In parallel, I began to take a closer look to other books of Emblems , discovering the books of Cesare Ripa and Alciati, and one day, I noticed an Emblem with a Fox holding a Mask with a reference to an actor's mask.

Mentem, non formam plus pollere

https://www.emblems.arts.gla.ac.uk/alciato/emblem.php?id=FALa048

"A fox, entering the store-room of a theatrical producer, found an actor’s mask, skilfully shaped, so finely fashioned that the spirit alone was missing, in all else it seemed alive. Taking it up, the fox addressed it - What a head is this, but it has no brain!"

Once again, it reminded me  Emblemata Sacra and I wondered if it could exist a link between  this emblem and emblem XXII. That is when I decided to translate the Latin text and  Irealised that the passage talked about ...

A CUNNING FOX !

This is also when I decided to take a true closer look to this book.

CJ , Kate, I respect your point of view. 

Kate , it doesn't matter if you think that it is a dead end.

However, CJ, I do not interpret things with a desired end in mind !!!

Most often, when I find something, my first thought is "No, it is not possible!"

By my second thought is " What if ?"

Then, I explore the possibility !

If the 1617 Edition of the Books contains 50 emblems, the 1624 edition contains 100 Emblems.

100 = FRANCIS BACON

100 emblems, really ?

No, there is a one more Emblem (101) almost in the middle of the Book ...

https://archive.org/details/emblematasacraho00cram/page/n225/mode/2up?ref=ol&view=theater

2023-07-01(1).png.a13fb0b3e11521e62edef70fe11ed555.png

Note the Harp of Apollo.

By the way, the Lyre (ancestor ot the Harp) was invented by Mercury, the Trickster ! 😉 

One of the two Angels holds and shows us an open book. Could it a be a clue ?

There are only two other emblems with an open book in Emblemata Sacra (1624)...

2023-07-01(5).png.7f2b0fd5e6a4eac4a3cdec8b080b8bdc.png

This is at this occasion, that I noticed that the arm holding the lamp looked like the head of a SWAN !

Thus, on one side I had the head of a Swan and on the other side the head of shakespeare.

Shortly after, I noticed the misprinted page 103 ( SHAKESPEARE, simple cipher) with an Emblem that, in my view, was similar to the one on the Title page of Minerva Brittanna. Once again, my first reaction was "No, it is not possible !".

But my second reaction was  : "What if ?"

2023-06-30(1).png.9802f5af665b6924f5dc40f4d12d0856.png

In Minerva Britanna's Emblem , Mente Videbori means ...

"By the mind I shall be seen !"

Note that in "PRAEDESTINATOR" we have IESI and not IESU or IESUS.

I wondered if it could be another clue.

image.png.e13f7d269cd8d73e78cd300ac3503603.png

119  = MEDIOCRIA FIRMA (Simple cipher)

77 = MINERVA (Simple cipher)

41 ... I did not know.

Then, I had the idea to take a closer look at Emblems XLI of Part I and II  ...

2023-07-01(4).png.fc1f4b5f934ad5b7f32e77e476203901.png

By chance, the two emblems XLI were on both pages 177, the simple cipher of WILLIAM SHAKE-SPEARE.

I will stop there.

There is, in my view, more to find in this book for those who are opened to the idea of a potential link with the Shakespeare Authorship Question.

image.png.3abbc47c1aad425c5e66257d8489dbbe.png

Regards.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Allisnum2er said:

And Chapter XXVII of Francis Bacon's Book "Wisdome of the Ancients" is :

The Flight of Icarus, also Scylla and Charybdis, or the Middle Way.

I am ready to know what this is all about! Someone tried to teach me about Icarus before I knew Bacon, but I wasn't ready. Yea, I got the story, but not how I should have. LOL

image.png.8bfb160b4a8d2acf81f5c48182cc9538.png

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Yann, you ended your post by saying “….for those who are opened to the idea of a potential link with the Shakespeare Authorship Question.”

That’s why we are all here. We are all extremely open to it.

I think it’s healthy to have questioning and different views/viewpoints. I particularly value RC for this reason.
 

 I don’t know why this is centered, it must have picked up on your formatting but talking of centered, isn’t it true to say Mediocria Firma, The Middle Way is Best, is the Bacon family motto, not specifically Francis Bacon’s? Wasn’t it on the crest that would have been used by Nicholas and Anthony Bacon too? 
 

Like when 33 is seen or found by one of us and immediately taken to relate to Bacon himself, when it could just be a wider nod/reference to the ‘brotherhood’ and the Invisible College’s hand at play in whatever is being looked at, the word Bacon could surely, in some instances refer to Nicholas, Anthony or Nathaniel (1585–1627), or even back to Roger Bacon in some cases. I think all possibilities always have to be critically evaluated.

That scrutiny is important or we’d all just be seen by the outside world as Bacon obsessives with no critical faculties who just see code and cipher pointing to Francis Bacon absolutely everywhere, when some acrostics, numbers etc, by the law of averages, will just be chance.

The person on the Pro Forma emblem certainly has the Droeshout type hair.  It is XXII so 22 which is intriguing too as it’s Bacon’s birthday and the whole to/to, two/two, 22 light/dark duality thing that’s been discussed elsewhere. You’ve made lots of other interesting links that support it being a cryptic reference.  It’s all both fascinating and intriguing. 
 

I wonder if there’s anything more to be gleaned from the marks here. Is it writing or just lines?IMG_3795.jpeg.954480e0d6c5e716f41c9c0b5a7efe26.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Kate said:

That scrutiny is important or we’d all just be seen by the outside world as Bacon obsessives with no critical faculties who just see code and cipher pointing to Francis Bacon absolutely everywhere, when some acrostics, numbers etc, by the law of averages, will just be chance.

Hi Kate,

I would say that it is difficult to not be seen by the outside world as Bacon obsessives in a forum about Bacon, made by Baconians for the Baconians ! 😄

For example, I am a Baconian , in my "Heart" and in my "Eye".

 But sometimes, my eyes also see De Vere during my research.

Thus, I am a Baconian opened to the possibility that De Vere could be involved.

After all,  there is no smoke without fire ( to keep in the theme of Emblem XXII 😊 ).

And two or three times by the past, I shared with you the fruit of my research when I saw Bacon and De Vere hidden on the same page, by using the same technics.

Back to Emblemata Sacra, the fact is that there are a Shakespeare-like figure and a Francis Bacon-figure with the motto Ne Quid Nimis (From Terence, and Shakespeare was Called Our English Terence by John Davies of Hereford).

And Ne Quid Nimis can be related , as I showed you, to Mediocria Firma (That is Indeed Bacon's Familly motto and ipso facto Francis Bacon's motto). For example, Ne Quid Nimis can not be related to "Vero Nihil Verius" (Edward De Vere's motto) nor to "Quod menustrit me destruit " (Christopher Marlowe's motto).

You mention "code and cipher pointing to Francis Bacon absolutely everywhere, when some acrostics, numbers etc, by the law of averages, will just be chance".

The fact is that in my demonstration ( some will say suggestion 🙂) there were, for once, no acrostics.

And that is exactly why I did not mentioned this ...

image.png.76519888c61a6d573b529be6d4e8ce16.png

33 "words" by counting from 100.

(But I keep opened to the possibity that it was planned.)

Regarding the end of my previous post, and your remark, no Kate, everybody is not there, on B'Hive, for the Shakespeare Authorship Question ! And I have no problems with that.

It was just a way to say to those who are really interested in the subject that the study of this Book was, in my opinion, worthwhile.

2023-07-02.png.28aa44742edcbbcf5cce74add63aa932.png

The Emblem on page number 41 (Notice number 41) depicts the same Heart on an Altar than the one on the Symbol that crowns the Mastery of the Doctrine.

Couldan "History of the winds" be in play ? I don't know. I just ask myself the question. 🙂 

Finally, regarding your last question, I think that those are just lines, but I keep opened to all possibilities. 😊

« This art of memory is but built upon two intentions ; the one prenotion, the other emblem.  Prenotion dischargeth the indefinite seeking of that we would remember, and directeth us to seek in a narrow compass, that is, somewhat that hath congruity with our place of memory. Emblem reduceth conceits intellectual to images sensible, which strike the memory more ; out of which axioms may be drawn much better practice than that in use ; and besides which axioms, there are divers more touching help of memory not inferior to them. »

Francis Bacon - Advancement of Learning - Second Book

 

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On 6/30/2023 at 10:48 PM, RoyalCraftiness said:

Pro Forma here is being shown with a depiction of the idea that many things are done solely for appearance's sake as a formality. One puts on a mask because it is a way to introduce a sort of dialogue for the reader.  Plato, i.e.,  writes as if he is having a dialogue with Socrates, but all understand that it is Plato having a dialogue with himself. Socrates is a mask. This way to write is a formality when we understand the genre. 

Suggesting that this is pointing to a secret in an Shakespeare authorship question is an example of trying to interpret something with a desired end in mind, imo. That is almost always possible with images rich in symbolism.

This is what RC wrote Yann.  Read back through what I wrote after this post,  because I'm at a loss to know why you are being antsy with me. 

 

 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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2 hours ago, Kate said:

This is what RC wrote Yann.  Read back through what I wrote after this post,  because I'm at a loss to know why you are being antsy with me. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Kate said:

This is what RC wrote Yann.  Read back through what I wrote after this post,  because I'm at a loss to know why you are being antsy with me. 

 

???

Thank you, Kate. I have just learned a new English word thanks to you. (Antsy 😄)

And do not worry ! I am not antsy with you at all ! 😊

My apologies if my answer gave you this feeling.🙏

Much love,

❤️

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On 7/1/2023 at 8:07 PM, Light-of-Truth said:

I am ready to know what this is all about! Someone tried to teach me about Icarus before I knew Bacon, but I wasn't ready. Yea, I got the story, but not how I should have. LOL

image.png.8bfb160b4a8d2acf81f5c48182cc9538.png

It's of interest that the myth of Icarus is treated in Chapter 27 in a Bacon work because of the relevance of 27 in other places and to other groups. I've always thought it was possible that the illustration in Sylva Sylvarum may have alluded to it where it shows the bolt of light pointing down to the ocean in the North Atlantic. Was it where a man with too lofty an ambition fell down to Earth, so to speak? We can think of the maze as the creation of a very tangled story that is hard to decipher. Perhaps the story of God itself is the maze well guarded?  Maybe Bacon saw himself as a creator of such a storied thing?

The imagery may also refer to the fall of man in general from the angelic heights since the bolt is in fact shown coming down the middle (way) of the page. This we can also tie to the myth of the grail which made its way down to Earth by way of the neutral angels.  The general idea seems to be that there is a primary direction of travel from the Sun's divine heights  down to a lower spherical realm, Earth,  and that efforts to reach (know) the Sun (God) will cause us to fail in the "mundus intellectualis" . It's a good way to suggest that we' re stuck here polishing our stone in life (building up knowledge) for the first part of our sentence. In the second part we are reunited and given the goods (the full knowledge we seek), completing the 27x27 square. 

Regardless, it's a cautionary tale that Bacon must have spoken to him as a form of wisdom. It it reminiscent of the idea of Atlantis sinking. I think it is useful to appreciate the myths Bacon was drawn to.

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1 hour ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

It's of interest that the myth of Icarus is treated in Chapter 27 in a Bacon work because of the relevance of 27 in other places and to other groups.

I was studying Sonnet 78 yesterday being Day 183, the middle day of the year. In some ways I think of it as the Peak, or the Highest point in the Pyramid. I felt like I was reading a reference to Icarus.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#Sonnet078

SO oft haue I inuok'd thee for my Muse,
And found such faire assistance in my verse,
As euery Alien pen hath got my vse,
And vnder thee their poesie disperse.
Thine eyes,that taught the dumbe on high to sing,
And heauie ignorance aloft to flie,
Haue added fethers to the learneds wing,
And giuen grace a double Maiestie.

Yet be most proud of that which I compile,
Whose influence is thine,and borne of thee,
In others workes thou doost but mend the stile,
And Arts with thy sweete graces graced be.
  But thou art all my art,and doost aduance
  As high as learning,my rude ignorance.

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2 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I was studying Sonnet 78 yesterday being Day 183, the middle day of the year. In some ways I think of it as the Peak, or the Highest point in the Pyramid. I felt like I was reading a reference to Icarus.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#Sonnet078

SO oft haue I inuok'd thee for my Muse,
And found such faire assistance in my verse,
As euery Alien pen hath got my vse,
And vnder thee their poesie disperse.
Thine eyes,that taught the dumbe on high to sing,
And heauie ignorance aloft to flie,
Haue added fethers to the learneds wing,
And giuen grace a double Maiestie.

Yet be most proud of that which I compile,
Whose influence is thine,and borne of thee,
In others workes thou doost but mend the stile,
And Arts with thy sweete graces graced be.
  But thou art all my art,and doost aduance
  As high as learning,my rude ignorance.

A lot has been written about this which we can read to see the context. The author is said to be describing the power/effect associated with gazing into the youth's eye, allowing his and other's voices to "sing", and  intellect to soar to new heights. Doubling majesty in an interesting way to do hyperbole which involves the 2:1 proportion.

For This to apply to Bacon as the author one would be left considering if he is in fact referring to a youthful lover that greatly touched him or that he is describing a conversation he is having with himself as a "fair youth" when he had those very rare abilities to inspire. I'm assuming you prefer the latter interpretation.

I've seen both ideas. People have speculated a lot about the identity of the "fair youth" in these sonnets, often trying to involve Mr WH in the quest.

To place it in association with the middle of the year would again involve the 2:1 proportion. One could, if he wanted to, say that the author is representing the two halves of his life (fair youth and the declining years). He writing from the position of having learned great things as feathers were added to the wings which allowed him to soar. He may have thought it fit to describe that rise as lofty ambition that would set him up for a fall (we all falter in old age). It's hard to not say that about any life, though. The lesson in the myth of Icarus is one that applies to all of us.

Whatever interpretation we might favor for the Sonnets we can make Icarus compute, so it does not favor an interpretation. Where people take their ideas is limited only by their own imagination.

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3 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I was studying Sonnet 78 yesterday being Day 183, the middle day of the year. In some ways I think of it as the Peak, or the Highest point in the Pyramid. I felt like I was reading a reference to Icarus.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#Sonnet078

SO oft haue I inuok'd thee for my Muse,
And found such faire assistance in my verse,
As euery Alien pen hath got my vse,
And vnder thee their poesie disperse.
Thine eyes,that taught the dumbe on high to sing,
And heauie ignorance aloft to flie,
Haue added fethers to the learneds wing,
And giuen grace a double Maiestie.

Yet be most proud of that which I compile,
Whose influence is thine,and borne of thee,
In others workes thou doost but mend the stile,
And Arts with thy sweete graces graced be.
  But thou art all my art,and doost aduance
  As high as learning,my rude ignorance.

Hi Rob,

This is a very interesting finding.

After some quick research, the verb "fly" appears only once in Shakespeare's Sonnets, right here in Sonnet 78. 😊

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5 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Whatever interpretation we might favor for the Sonnets we can make Icarus compute, so it does not favor an interpretation. Where people take their ideas is limited only by their own imagination.

Yours is awesome! Much aligned with what was available 20 years ago in 2003.

Yet you add math which is very important.

Me? Over 20 years now I may have 7 or 8 theories about Sonnet 78 backed up by days, clues, hints, and ciphers.

This year is not the same as last year. I've never had Icarus in my mind when in the Sonnets..

In Sonnet 78, is Bacon saying in plain text, not in cipher, that what he was doing as a poet is adding waxed feathers to a Foole?

First thought, the poet:

Thine eyes,that taught the dumbe on high to sing,
And heauie ignorance aloft to flie,
Haue added fethers to the learneds wing,
And giuen grace a double Maiestie.

Second thought, the scientist:

Yet be most proud of that which I compile,
Whose influence is thine,and borne of thee,
In others workes thou doost but mend the stile,
And Arts with thy sweete graces graced be.

OMG, all these years missing it! 🙂

Can't wait till next year!! LOL

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Yours is awesome! Much aligned with what was available 20 years ago in 2003.

Yet you add math which is very important.

Me? Over 20 years now I may have 7 or 8 theories about Sonnet 78 backed up by days, clues, hints, and ciphers.

This year is not the same as last year. I've never had Icarus in my mind when in the Sonnets..

In Sonnet 78, is Bacon saying in plain text, not in cipher, that what he was doing as a poet is adding waxed feathers to a Foole?

First thought, the poet:

Thine eyes,that taught the dumbe on high to sing,
And heauie ignorance aloft to flie,
Haue added fethers to the learneds wing,
And giuen grace a double Maiestie.

Second thought, the scientist:

Yet be most proud of that which I compile,
Whose influence is thine,and borne of thee,
In others workes thou doost but mend the stile,
And Arts with thy sweete graces graced be.

OMG, all these years missing it! 🙂

Can't wait till next year!! LOL

 

 

 

 

 

So who is the owner of these eyes that have all these metaphorical associations? Is the "fair youth" Bacon as a young man to you? Or is the author  just speaking of anyone who could be the object of our intense affections with the power to teach us, telling us something about ourselves that we never knew. That sort of added knowledge, while as light as feather, has the power to make us soar (maybe even too high).

Science can be that way too.  He can look back into all that he has compiled which was borne of thee and feel an intense "love" for this new created thing which also has the power to influence others. Arts, as in the Liberal Arts, are graced by one's contribution. 

One could argue that Bacon has indeed fallen in love with science. If so, then it is entirely true to describe the gaze as it is describe here. It can make you soar, and it can allow you to get ahead of the natural world's kinetics and struck down by natural forces you cannot master. Bacon was very much interested in taming Nature by unlocking her secrets. 

In the matter of colonization it was only too true that natural calamity seems to have conspired against some of his plans over and over.

 

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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  • 2 weeks later...

Just learned something new, which immediately made me think of this:

image.png.1884b5bb97acbd46c3fb1965f89697b1.png
 

Francis Bacon, Peter Dawkins once taught me, was given the title of  Viscount St Alban - not Viscount (of) St Albans. I just learned from a video about the Saint that (in legend) when St Alban was executed, his eyes rolled out of his skull.
 

It made me immediately think of this emblem. If it is depicting a mask relating to the Shakespeare authorship, it could be telling us it’s someone connected to St Alban, as there are no eyes on the right.  Bacon!

Edited by Kate
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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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18 hours ago, Kate said:

Just learned something new, which immediately made me think of this:

image.png.1884b5bb97acbd46c3fb1965f89697b1.png
 

Francis Bacon, Peter Dawkins once taught me, was given the title of  Viscount St Alban - not Viscount (of) St Albans. I just learned from a video about the Saint that (in legend) when St Alban was executed, his eyes rolled out of his skull.
 

It made me immediately think of this emblem. If it is depicting a mask relating to the Shakespeare authorship, it could be telling us it’s someone connected to St Alban, as there are no eyes on the right.  Bacon!

Hi Kate

 

I'm going t sound like a wet blanket, but after reading what others had to say about this image I'm persuaded that it represents duplicity, mendacity, two-faced-ness. But as Rob said, why is the face of the mask wearer also a mask?

Vis-a-vis the shape of the collar in the Droeshout portrait, here are a few other examples of similar collars:WilliamDrummondofHawthornden(15851649).jpeg.71daaef7274ad2ee22e29d2bdca20d99.jpeg

 

 

 

WilliamDrummondofHawthornden1585-1649.jpeg.bcd4bc855a11b5b3af2f9054469db9e9.jpegWWilliamDrummondofHawthornden1585-1649.jpeg.314282e15ea2e37d366053fd94c6cb4b.jpeg

Believe it or not, the NGS claims that these three portraits are of the same person: William Drummond of Hawthornden, 1585 - 1649. There's also this one but I haven't been able to trace or identify it.

ScreenShot2023-07-01at11_52_58am.png.8ab62b1e31b448ea8e945d6fe232c7fc.png

So it seems that the shovel-shaped collar did exist in England during the first two decades of the 17th century.

 

 

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Hi Eric

Yes, regarding the mask, I agree. I thought I’d just mention the connection to St Alban and his lack of eyes as the emblem came straight to mind.

Thanks for putting your view. We have to be sure not to try and make things fit or we just become guilty of what we (I) accuse Stratfordians of! 😬

With regards to the ruff. I say this because I’m a bit of a pedant, not to be defensive, but in my article I didn’t say the shape of this ruff wasn’t around, it’s on the Cobbe and is obviously a vaguely similar shape to the collar on the Chandos that I’ve heard it said Droeshout may have been working from.  I was pointing out that they usually had lace on them, not sun rays, except on the warriors and Court military that Peethagoras had introduced in the thread we have on it.
 

The top one is interesting for although it has lace there are some lines on it. I’m not sure the middle two above are comparable though, as neither come right under the chin, they have a deep V.
 

That said my assertion is now blown out of the water if this last picture you’ve posted above is proved to be from before the Droeshout made an appearance. There are definitely similar sun rays on it.
 

It seems to say Wentworth, First Earl of Stafford? There are 6 pages of portraits of him online but no similar ruff that I could see.
 

Great find. We perhaps need to keep digging! 

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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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  • 4 months later...

Hi A Phoenix,

I may have accidently found another piece of the Puzzle regarding "Dr Panurgus" engraved by Martin Droeshout circa 1620.

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:"Doctor_Panurgus"_curing_the_folly_of_his_patients_by_purgat_Wellcome_L0023713.jpg

Fichier:"Doctor Panurgus" curing the folly of his patients by purgat Wellcome L0023713.jpg

We know that this engraving is based on some earlier engravings.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84044406

vue 1 - page NP

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b84018160

vue 1 - page NP

As I was looking for a specific Emblem for another topic, I noticed  the following emblem that immediatly caught my eyes because of its similarity with "Dr Panurgus". 

https://publicdomainreview.org/collection/le-centre-de-l-amour-ca-1687/

image.png.f42176fa5c937290502a19e0bebe8510.png

Le centre de l'amour, illustrated by Peter Rollos (c.1687)

The Universal Author.

The Universal Author is the Wine, and we know that the Roman God of Wine was BACCO (Bacchus).

50 + 50 = 100 = FRANCIS BACON (Simple cipher)

And notice, right in the middle (mediocria) and above the Hogshead ... the Conie and the Hog. 😉

image.png.95a08c8c6e940bdc99539e189a46105a.png

The last page  93 ( I.C.)

  • Wow! 3

image.png.b8c74f56d5551c745119c268cf9d3db8.png

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