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Kate: "Rather like Hen W on here is finding myriad links in distances using Google Maps. It defies logic and therefore is assumed to be design - but rarely actually is." Since the myriad of lines, angles and bearings (not distances) are all connected by a mysteriously consistent logic, linking them to the Stratford-inscription, I thought they were worth presenting on this forum. It could be my design, or it could be Bacon's.

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1 hour ago, Hen. W. said:

...I thought they were worth presenting on this forum. It could be my design, or it could be Bacon's.

I'd say they are definitely worth sharing. That's what the forum is for; sharing of ideas.

I know I've enjoyed reading your thoughts. Plus I got to know Google Earth Pro a little more. 🙂

There is no question drawing maps was something that was an art in the 1500s and 1600s. I would imagine Bacon and his inner circle were aware of some physical locations and may have reasons to be aware that we cannot know.

Kate is correct about filtering some ideas in the ultimate quest for Truth. Yet without imagination and creativity we would never discover anything new. Each of us may use whatever filters we prefer, and as a group we may sometimes agree on what may be true. Hopefully the B'Hive is a place where we can experiment, explore, and learn freely. 🙂

 

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2 hours ago, Hen. W. said:

Kate: "Rather like Hen W on here is finding myriad links in distances using Google Maps. It defies logic and therefore is assumed to be design - but rarely actually is." Since the myriad of lines, angles and bearings (not distances) are all connected by a mysteriously consistent logic, linking them to the Stratford-inscription, I thought they were worth presenting on this forum. It could be my design, or it could be Bacon's.

Of course you should share them Hen W - and really glad to have you here doing so. I think you missed my point or I didn't convey it clearly enough. 

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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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In the interests of getting to the truth (as opposed to being a disruptor!) here’s a slightly different take on Fabyan, Riverbank, the Smiths and Wells Gallup. It’s a longish article:  https://www.andreanolen.com/home/imperial-german-active-measures-and-the-founding-of-the-nsa

IMG_2330.jpeg.23e7831db2013fbf96a450d667f83ec5.jpeg

It’s known that human nature is such that we can unconsciously build beliefs around people that support the narrative we have come to espouse. Anything which contradicts that can be dismissed as dis/misinformation written to put people ‘off the scent’  - it’s a common psychological reaction of “conspiracy theorists” as to have one’s view’s and beliefs challenged, questioned or brought into doubt, can strike right at the heart of a person’s identity. 

I’m not suggesting this about anyone here, just continuing to advocate for looking at information like this critically, free from unconscious biases. As always the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle - and I hope we can arrive at it.  Mediocria Firma!

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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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Hi Kate. Thanks for sharing that article.

It would be good if the authors of such articles substantiated their claims with references. In some places, references are indeed provided (like "Munson 2013"), but not in this particular case. And I prefer to work with facts, not unfounded statements.

For instance, there's a large Fabyan archive stored at the Library of Congress. I can't get there. If I could, or if anyone will get there and present to us real documents (letters, notes, whatever) that would contradict with what we know now, we would undoubtedly have to reconsider our beliefs.

But for now, I can present 4 counterarguments:

1. In 1918, a french version of "Ciphers for Little Folks" was published (as far as I know, also in France). I don't know the background of this publication, but I guess this fact alone refutes the statement that Fabyan lost interest in promoting Gallup's work at the beginning of 1917.

2. After the war, Fabyan actively corresponded with Cartier and, in fact, doing so, "promoted" her works among professional cryptographers. The intermediate result of this correspondence was a series of publications in Mercure de France and, AFAIR, one in Fly-Leaves. After that, Fabyan invited Cartier to visit him and personally verify some of texts, choosing as his companions any of those experts who disagreed with him after publications in Mercure de France (around 1921-1923). Unfortunately, for some personal reasons, Cartier's visit did not take place. (Source: Cartier's own words in his monograph.)

3. To the end of his life, Fabyan sponsored the experiments with acoustics, all of which began with a description of a levitation device, provided to him by Gallup, who allegedly got if from decrypted texts by Bacon. Several generations of scientists worked on the project, and for them, the most modern acoustic laboratory of that time was established at Riverbank. Details of this fascinating story can be read in the book "The Sabines at Riverbank" (this book is very rare but still, you can find it here. Or I guess it was very rare, until recently 🙂).

4. From the same book, two interesting quotes can be given. The first is by Fabyan's secretary, Cora Jensen, p.179:

Although the colonel first believed that Shakespeare’s plays were the product of Francis Bacon, by the application of Bacon’s bi-lateral cipher to the books of Elizabethan authors such as Shakespeare, Bacon, Marlowe and Spenser, he be­came convinced the writings of that period were the work of the Rosicrucian Society. ... This society controlled all the printing of that period. The colonel believed that everything printed under their auspices had an underlying meaning known only to those who could decipher the code.

The second is the author's text (J.Kopec), p.180:

As for Riverbank’s involvement with the Shakespeare project, when the colonel died, so did his project. Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in the collection of the colonel’s books and notes, now somewhere in Washington.
The unanswered question is why, after all the other cutbacks in his projects at Riverbank because of the Depression, Elizabeth Gallup’s passing, and the Friedmans’s strong disbelief in Gallup’s and the colonel’s theory, would Colonel Fabyan continue to spend money on the Shakespeare project? Did he find some new evidence later in his vast collection of books. Some be­lieve he did, especially when he changed the focus from Bacon to the Rosi­crucian Society.

* * *

So, there is an undeniable fact: after 1916, no more brochures on Bacon ciphers were published by the Riverbank in the US. At least to this day, such works are unknown (the french 1918 book was published, AFAIK, in France, so it doesn't count). That's a fact. Why the author assumes that "in early 1917 Fabyan lost interest in promoting Gallup’s work" is unclear to me. No reference, no documents, no proof is provided.

Perhaps he makes such a conclusion exactly because after 1916, no more Riverbank brochures on Bacon ciphers were published? But this can be explained another way: the US entered the war, the Riverbank's "Department of Ciphers" had more important tasks, and after the war, the cryptologists moved to government service, and that was it.

But again, and I emphasize it, that - is not a fact, it's just my conjecture. (Just like the author's one.)

3 hours ago, Kate said:

As always the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle - and I hope we can arrive at it.

This I strongly support.

* * *

By the way, since we're talking about Fabyan, I can recommend three books (um, two books, one article):

1. Already mentioned, The Sabines at Riverbank.
2. George Fabyan: The Tycoon Who Broke Ciphers, Ended Wars, Manipulated Sound, Built a Levitation Machine, and Organized the Modern Research Center by Richard Munson.
3. Since Munson's book is not very accurate, I also recommend a review by John Dooley, which was published in CRYPTOLOGIA 39 vol 1, pp.92-98.

All three can be found here.

Edited by friendsofidb
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P.S. I think I'm mistaken about the 1918 French translation of Ciphers for Little Folks being published in France. I've re-checked some books and articles that mention this book (and the book itself, of course), and it seems it was published where all other pamphlets were, at Riverbank, Geneva, Illinois.

I think I mixed something up in my head, I guess because of Friedman's Index of Coincidence (which was, actually, translated and published in France). Sorry 😄 

But! This even further refutes the claim that Fabyan was no longer interested in promoting Gallup's work. He even invested in a translation. 🙂 

 

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Thanks for the above, There's a large number of books available on LoC website and other things from the George Fabyan Collection but I guess you mean documents.  Stumbled across this by Friedman. Don't know if there's anything of any interest to anyone on here, but the table of contents looks interesting. I searched Cartier and there are 9 returns but I'm afraid I don't have time to look through them right now.  I did search Bacon. Only a few instances but Friedman seems to be advocating for him (?), if you search that.  I love digging around!

https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/friedman-documents/publications/FOLDER_205/41762559080174.pdfcryptographyandcryptanalysisFriedman.png.abcb74c399c4a492d782df555e4d73ed.png

Edited by Kate
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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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Oh, I totally forgot to mention this.

On our site, we offer full-text search through the NSA Friedman collection, Mercure de France (all issues between 1920 and 1940), and Baconiana.

Sometimes, due to poor scan quality, recognized text contains mistakes - to put it mildly 🙂 but there's not much we can do about it. It's the nature of declassified govt docs.

Just try it:

image.png.0af8958edc2ec4e3a431083446503f20.png

Or in Baconiana, for example:

image.png.bfc6b7069f4bb526d50ed158cae9988f.png

 

Edited by friendsofidb
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As for Friedman "advocating" for Bacon, I have a good example of that. For instance, his "six lectures on cryptology": https://files.4in1.ws/NSA Friedman Documents/Publications/ACC15281/41785109082412.pdf

It's in the end of second lecture. Scroll to page 30 in the linked document, where he starts describing the biliteral cipher.

Following quote speaks for itself:

Quote

Bacon called his invention the Biliteral Cipher, and it is so ingenious that I think you should be told about it so that you will all fully understand it.

 

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4 hours ago, friendsofidb said:

As for Friedman "advocating" for Bacon, I have a good example of that. For instance, his "six lectures on cryptology": https://files.4in1.ws/NSA Friedman Documents/Publications/ACC15281/41785109082412.pdf

It's in the end of second lecture. Scroll to page 30 in the linked document, where he starts describing the biliteral cipher.

Following quote speaks for itself:

 

It is a good quote. 🙂

image.png.c75e9149a47efa8ccb5c47c2912d205b.png

This triggered my mind to remember hearing somewhere that "every prince" has a cipher. With my mind being a little cluttered so could not recall where I have heard that I expected an easy Google search to find the source. I was thinking Dodd or Dawkins, but was only directed to a free eBook called, Sir Francis Bacon and His Secret Society. It is free to look at at, but there is no search that I can see and to download it you need to sign up for a free trial that you can cancel at anytime. (I have too many paid subscriptions already that were free trials when I wanted to see or do something.)

https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/sir-francis-bacon-and-his-secret-society-free-ebook/36006302

image.png.1a00f97e97a40b68c887c55233457ba9.png

EDIT:

Just for fun:

image.png.83c458870ab9609aa81a02a318d73f31.png

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Of very special interest in my research of the Word Cipher I have looking high and low for an article from 1981 from the Detroit Journal, I looked for anything about the discoverer of the Word Cipher, Dr. Orville Owen, and had a surprising discovery of an article about the technology startup he was at the center of, a propulsion system for Flying Machines! [Wright Bros. : De. 1903]

So the fundamental idea can from Fra Bacon again?

airship.png

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2 hours ago, friendsofidb said:

Btw, I know very little about Dr. Owen of Detroit,

See the very recent topic on him. Here’s the first post - I don’t know if this links to the entire topic with multiple posts but you can access it via here. This is the problem when forums get filled with so much content, it’s hard to not miss things (and often things get repeated). He’s a quack but maybe a genius, eccentric one.  The information in this topic thread throws the credibility of him and Elizabeth Wells Gallup into serious question. Amongst other things he fully believed Bacon murdered Shakespeare 🙄

 

Edited by Kate
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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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On 4/26/2024 at 4:11 AM, Light-of-Truth said:

Did they have access to Shakespeare around 1623 time? Who knew who? I bet Dee knew someone from pretty much everywhere. LOL

Bacon knew a lot of people and a lot of people knew him. Is there a Russian history with Bacon that is in the shadow?

This is too much fun. Riverbank opens up a can of worms. 😉

Hi Rob,

Here is something about John Dee and the Muscovy Company.

https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/search-new-trade

https://www.historymuseum.ca/cmc/exhibitions/hist/frobisher/frsub09e.html#cathay2

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  • 1 month later...

Hello,

First of all, I want to thank sirbacon's administration for promoting our work in the news!

In the near future, three new articles will be published (and I hope they will finalize the topic of Troilus and Cressida... but I'm not sure, we'll see... I'm not the author after all), with the main focus in the cryptographic part of the article this time dedicated to Elizebeth Friedman. Maybe in English translation I'll publish them as a one big article. The first part was published in Russian about three weeks ago and has already been translated, but I'm waiting for the continuations so that I could release in English everything at once.

And thanks again 🙂

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34 minutes ago, friendsofidb said:

Hello,

First of all, I want to thank sirbacon's administration for promoting our work in the news!

In the near future, three new articles will be published (and I hope they will finalize the topic of Troilus and Cressida... but I'm not sure, we'll see... I'm not the author after all), with the main focus in the cryptographic part of the article this time dedicated to Elizebeth Friedman. Maybe in English translation I'll publish them as a one big article. The first part was published in Russian about three weeks ago and has already been translated, but I'm waiting for the continuations so that I could release in English everything at once.

And thanks again 🙂

It is our sincere pleasure to promote your work. We waited until the Francis Bacon Society newsletter went out to allow them to make the big announcement. But we are very proud that the B'Hive was the first place it appeared in English. 🙂

I'll add your site to our recommended sites in the next day or so. We need to add you to our biblio as well. I've been busy with work for a while, even though it might seem all I do is play here in the discussions. 😉

 

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