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There are a host of academic arguments as to Bacon being Shakespeare but the way to start needs be by elimination of the basics and the most obvious is Will from Stratford.

1. He could not write anything but scrawl his own name.

2; He was not educated anywhere anywhere where he could have known anything about foreign travel; English Law; the practices of the Queen's Court; or any scientific knowledge all of which are prevalent in the Shakespeare works.

3. His name only appeared on publications after the Queen's wrath over the deposition scene in Richard III. after which he left London permanently to live in Stratford until his death. 

4. Many plays were most likely written after Will lived in Stratford

5. His father, wife and daughters were all illiterate.

6. No books or papers or writings of any description were discovered on his death. He was not honoured or mourned on his death whereas all celebrated poets and writers were commemorated in Westminster Abbey. 

7. His statue in Stratford was altered from wool merchant to writer indicating subterfuge to conceal his real identity.

8. He died ten years befor the 1st Folio was published as a compilation of plays that would, if he had wriiten them, belonged to him. Yet he left no instructions in his Will to publish them or where to find them.

I am deliberatly stating the obvious but these are basic points known to history obfuscated by academics employed to contnue the cover up which Bacon himself put in place to protect himself from his mother's, the Queen, anger. There are of course a host of arguments as to Bacon's authorship and reliance on secret codes and circumstantial evidence but the above facts show clearly that Will Shakespeare was not the author of anything on which a vast range of people over the centuries are in agreement.

 

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You make some very astute points, but in truth, nothing has ever been found to prove Bacon's handiwork.

              As it says in the monument text:

Stay passenger, why goest thou by so fast,

Read if thou canst, whom envious death hath plast

With in this monument Shakspeare: with whome

Quick nature dide whose name doth deck (this) tombe,

Far more than cost: sieh all, (that) He hath writt,

Leaves living art but page to serve his witt.

                       Who can possibly argue with any of that? Clear and precise.

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The man in the moone was not a buffoon

 

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8 minutes ago, peethagoras said:

You make some very astute points, but in truth, nothing has ever been found to prove Bacon's handiwork.

We Baconians have a very large pyramid of evidence in support of Bacon, much more than any other candidate. Willy is out.

We have a powerful new "Smoking Gun", and our member A. Phoenix has built so much onto the pyramid of connections and historical evidence that Bacon was Shakespeare.

As far as the Shakespeare Monument:

10 minutes ago, peethagoras said:

Who can possibly argue with any of that? Clear and precise.

LOL! I love it! You jest Pee! 🙂

 

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38 minutes ago, peethagoras said:

You make some very astute points, but in truth, nothing has ever been found to prove Bacon's handiwork.

              As it says in the monument text:

Stay passenger, why goest thou by so fast,

Read if thou canst, whom envious death hath plast

With in this monument Shakspeare: with whome

Quick nature dide whose name doth deck (this) tombe,

Far more than cost: sieh all, (that) He hath writt,

Leaves living art but page to serve his witt.

                       Who can possibly argue with any of that? Clear and precise.

image.png.f60050a2eaf8913086e4836b90531618.png

https://internetshakespeare.uvic.ca/Library/facsimile/book/Bran_F1/374/index.html%3fzoom=1200.html

Stay Travellers, Bacon heere !

😁

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10 minutes ago, peethagoras said:

Hello there LOT:

But nothing has ever been found to prove Bacon's handiwork.

Or has it?

What is Proof? Said somebody jesting...

We have "proof" that there is a Shakespeare collection. If there is ever a day when someone has indisputable proof on who wrote Shakespeare, it will be a very big day indeed.

But as I said, Baconians have the most good solid evidence and much of it is indisputable. 😉

I thought I proved Bacon was Shakespeare 20 years ago, but I was dreaming. LOL

 

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35 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said:

image.png.98ce6c32360417ee762ead12908a9dbc.png

"Hang Hog is latten for Bacon , I warrant you." 😉 

Here we travel into the richest cipher mine field in all of Shakespeare's works. The page before, page 53:

image.png.b338f516fe0c7aca787824ef6aae9749.png

If we count Chamber-lye and Charing-crosse as two words, we see 102 words of speech from rose to crosse.

image.png.9d9efe8e76397566e69cff7d9c35aee7.png

And we know from the B'Hive that ONE HUNDRED TWO is 157 Simple and 287 Kaye cipher as is FRA ROSI CROSSE.

In these pages we are being taught a highly valuable lesson. 😉

 

Wor. Peace Cousin, say no more.
And now I will vnclaspe a Secret booke,
And to your quicke conceyuing Discontents,
Ile reade you Matter, deepe and dangerous,
As full of perill and aduenturous Spirit,
As to o're-walke a Current, roaring loud
On the vnstedfast footing of a Speare.

 

 

 

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There is also this one:

image.png.e13439b042a901b8bf0428ec8783d19c.png

And not even scratching a tease about these pages. I have long considered these few pages of Shakespeare (shooke Spear?) to be the Bacon Cipher 101 course that his good pens must have mastered. 😉

Dee is hinted at as well, if I am correct in my way of seeing the ciphers.

image.png.b183094228e8a7dace45498ea3e941c4.png

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2 hours ago, Allisnum2er said:

 

Stay Travellers, Bacon heere !

😁

The words, “Stay passenger” on Shakespeare’s monument and in the Elegies to Bacon. Compare and contrast! 
IMG_1254.jpeg.8054ab5d2be6537ee45822bdca1b59cf.jpeg

IMG_1252.jpeg.c5f67b25d13a62af323a67be0788bef1.jpeg

IMG_1253.jpeg.cb9654dd4667e8a58be6e09860b7166c.jpeg

378D23E6-B548-4695-BBBE-33305B2DF274.jpeg.640e627b052d44ef81cfc88f4fb03f70.jpeg

 

All from APs latest on Academia.edu

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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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10 minutes ago, Kate said:

The words, “Stay passenger” on Shakespeare’s monument and in the Elegies to Bacon. Compare and contrast! 

...

All from APs latest on Academia.edu

Thank you, Kate!

I need to someday learn how to read more than a few short internet bursts! I'd learn so much! LOL

 

 

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I would just point out too that Olympus Habet here clearly refers to the celestial peak  ie the heavens, the highest abode of the Olympian Gods not necessarily a mountain but a metaphor.IMG_1258.jpeg.aabd9e692ed816a2c7533e698c27557d.jpeg

IMG_1260.jpeg.5b45aafc9c2a12f04ca483fd2c8a6fcd.jpeg
 

Now read this from APs paper.

IMG_1254.jpeg.486425110da1406ea0c9037066487584.jpeg
Immured means ‘contained’ so again Olympus is a reference to how he is in God’s heavenly realm not the monument. These were probably common themes at the time; mention of Olympus and “passengers” (passengers on this mortal coil) but I wonder how much this exact terminology was used on others in their eulogies/elegies between the death of “Shakespeare” and Bacon as it would add (or detract) weight. It would be interesting to see.


Also, the monument is not his tomb, so the name is on the tomb, not here. The insertion of the punctuation is interesting because there are commas but not one before Shakespeare and so it actually reads, “Read if thou cans’t, whom envious death has plast with in this monument Shakespeare”

Placed within this Shakespeare monument perhaps? Or placed with, in this monument.
 

IMG_1261.jpeg.93d8fd6578c537c5a99b854f21b9621b.jpeg

I’m not the first to spot this or discuss it but it’s curious - esp why so much punctuation was added when Dugdale hadn’t included it and said Plac’t not Plast.

Edited by Kate
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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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Dugdale also wrote "freind" and not "frend". And he changed "encloased" to "inclosed". He also expanded the thorn-t, and thorn-y (Yt and Ye) abbreviations.

It is claimed by some that the monument was intended for shakespeare's dad, and the pillow was actually a bag of wool.

I cannot see any relationship between the text below the effigy, and a wool merchant. In Olympia?

The text has always been substantially as we see it today, Dugdale himself proves that.

 

It should be noted that the first line ends in a question, but no question mark exists. Also, I would have expected a question make at the end of "whose name doth deck Ys tombe  (?)

That would mean a comma after the 3rd word, in the 4th line, counting down, thus making:

QVICK NATVRE DIDE, WHOSE NAME DOTH DECK Ys TOMBE ?

The same 3rd line is also the 3rd counting up.

** For those members of this Forum who understand the numbers: Q N D = 33.

The big question is this: whose name really does decorate that tombe?

      (It surprises me why it's never been commented on, and yet, there it is, in plain view).

An even bigger question is this: just who is within this monument shakspeare?

Lastly, the biggest question of all, why the challenge:  Read if thou canst?

** I apologize for bringing cipher-type stuff to this section.

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The man in the moone was not a buffoon

 

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On 1/23/2024 at 8:54 PM, Allisnum2er said:

A Phoenix has evidence of Bacon's handwriting and it is assumed that handwriting on The Northumberland Manuscript and Bacon's Promus is that of Bacon. 

Edited by jon bentley
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On 1/23/2024 at 11:17 PM, Kate said:

The words, “Stay passenger” on Shakespeare’s monument and in the Elegies to Bacon. Compare and contrast! 
IMG_1254.jpeg.8054ab5d2be6537ee45822bdca1b59cf.jpeg

IMG_1252.jpeg.c5f67b25d13a62af323a67be0788bef1.jpeg

IMG_1253.jpeg.cb9654dd4667e8a58be6e09860b7166c.jpeg

378D23E6-B548-4695-BBBE-33305B2DF274.jpeg.640e627b052d44ef81cfc88f4fb03f70.jpeg

 

All from APs latest on Academia.edu

There is evidence that Bacon after his faked death in England in 1626 joined Valentin Andrea in Transylvania to write the Rosicrucian manuscript Der Fama aka Fama Fraternitas.  

Edited by jon bentley
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8 hours ago, jon bentley said:

There is evidence that Bacon after his faked death in England in 1626 joined Valentin Andrea in Transylvania to write the Rosicrucian manuscript Der Fama aka Fama Fraternitas.  

You would enjoy and should read this thread on that topic:

 

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23 hours ago, jon bentley said:

A Phoenix has evidence of Bacon's handwriting and it is assumed that handwriting on The Northumberland Manuscript and Bacon's Promus is that of Bacon. 

Hi Jon,

First of all, welcome on board. 🙂

Be sure that I am fully aware of the remarkable work of A Phoenix on these subjects.

The aim of my post was to share something I noticed few months ago, as we already discussed here, in two distinct topics, of Manes Verulamiani and of Shakespeare's monument. I did not share it before because I needed to investigate further.

I had all the time to "compare and contrast" (as Kate so rightly said) the alignement that I found with both the Memoriae and Shakespeare's monument.

Now, one could ask why I underlined " Jesu blesse us".

All that I would say is that ,once again, we have to "compare and contrast."😉

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19 hours ago, jon bentley said:

There is evidence that Bacon after his faked death in England in 1626 joined Valentin Andrea in Transylvania to write the Rosicrucian manuscript Der Fama aka Fama Fraternitas.  

Jon, pardon me, but you probably had another Rosicrucian manuscript in mind and made a mistake ???

Fama Fraternitatis was published in 1614, many years before the "feigned" death of Francis Bacon.

 

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22 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said:

Jon, pardon me, but you probably had another Rosicrucian manuscript in mind and made a mistake ???

Fama Fraternitatis was published in 1614, many years before the "feigned" death of Francis Bacon.

 

Thank you. My understanding is that Bacon worked on Der Fama aka Fama Fraternitas with Valentin Andrea while he lived in England and then  Transylvania. I assume there were later  updated versions. In my book said that Der Fama had initially been published in 1615. Bacon and Andrea were said also to be working in Transylavania on a code of practice for the Rosicrucians based on the beliefs of the Templars and the Gnostics. 

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56 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said:

Hi Jon,

First of all, welcome on board. 🙂

Be sure that I am fully aware of the remarkable work of A Phoenix on these subjects.

The aim of my post was to share something I noticed few months ago, as we already discussed here, in two distincts topics, of Manes Verulamiani and of Shakespeare's monument. I did not share it before because I needed to investigate further.

I had all the time to "compare and constrat" (as Kate so rightly said) the alignement that I found with both the Memoriae and Shakespeare's monument.

Now, one could ask why I underlined " Jesu bless us".

All that I would say is that ,once again, we have to "compare and contrast."😉

Thank you, having just joined BBB I need to catch up on past conversations. 

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In my book I state the date of Der Fama which as I understand is aka in German for Fama Fraternitas was initially published in 1615 but went on to have updates in the hands of Bacon and Valentin Andrea in Transylvania who were also working on a code of practice based on previous Templar and Gnostic examples. 

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1 hour ago, Allisnum2er said:

Here is a book about Valentin Andrae that seems interesting with a chapter dedicated to : 

THE CHRISTIANOPOLIS AND FRANCIS BACON'S NEW ATLANTIS (P.41)

https://ia800206.us.archive.org/32/items/johannvalentinan00andrrich/johannvalentinan00andrrich.pdf

Many thanks for this. Altogether fascinating and the similarities between Christianopolis and The New Atlantis would certainly seem to evidence Andrea and Bacon working closely together.

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Jon Bentley said:

"1. He could not write anything but scrawl his own name. "

and "6. No books or papers or writings of any description were discovered on his death."

If the so-called 'signatures' on wills etc are dismissed, then GENIO SOCRATEM* could be true.

From the Stratford monument Latin text, line 1, words 3 and 4: GENIO = genius, SOCRATEM = Socrates. Genius of Socrates: a man from whom not one jot of writing has ever been found.

Edited by peethagoras
addiition for clarity
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The man in the moone was not a buffoon

 

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