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It is herein recorded that on Jan. 21 1560/1


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Today is January 21, 2024. Every year I wonder about the following quote which can be found in "Chronology Related to Francis B" on SirBacon.org and also in a paper titled, "Queen Elizabeth I’s Pregnancy, Secret Marriage and Childbirth" by Peter Dawkins.

https://sirbacon.org/links/Chronology Related to Francis B

https://www.fbrt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Queen-Elizabeth-I-Pregnancy-Secret-Marriage-and-Childbirth.pdf

Dictionary of National Biography XVI p. 114 "It is herein recorded that on Jan. 21 1560/1 Queen Elizabeth was secretly married to Robert Dudley in the House of Lord Pembroke before a number of witnesses."

 

Archive.org has Dictionary of National Biography XVI p. 114 available, but I do not see this exact phrase and am not able to find "Jan 21 1560/1561". Is there another version of this book that has the date?

https://archive.org/details/dictionaryofnati16stepuoft/page/114/mode/1up

 

Alfred Dodd mentions they were married in late September 1560 in his book, "Marriage of Elizabeth Tudor" on page 160.

https://sirbacon.org/downloads/Marriage-of-Elizabeth-Tudor_ BW_Jan7.pdf

It is openly reported (Sec Dic. Nat. Biog.) that the Queen was secretly betrothed to Dudley, and that they were married at Lord Pembroke’s House sometime in late September.

 

I was hoping to say "Happy Anniversary" to Elizabeth and Robert Dudley today, but I'm not sure on the facts yet. Page 114 of the Dictionary of National Biography XVI does state the following, but does not say late September nor January 21:

It was reported that she was formally betrothed to him, that she had secretly married him in Lord Pembroke's house, and that she was ' a mother already ' (January 1560-1).

 

Can anybody direct me to the exact source of either the late September or January 21 statement?

Thank you! 🙂

 

 

 

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On 1/21/2024 at 3:03 PM, Light-of-Truth said:

Today is January 21, 2024. Every year I wonder about the following quote which can be found in "Chronology Related to Francis B" on SirBacon.org and also in a paper titled, "Queen Elizabeth I’s Pregnancy, Secret Marriage and Childbirth" by Peter Dawkins.

https://sirbacon.org/links/Chronology Related to Francis B

https://www.fbrt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Queen-Elizabeth-I-Pregnancy-Secret-Marriage-and-Childbirth.pdf

Dictionary of National Biography XVI p. 114 "It is herein recorded that on Jan. 21 1560/1 Queen Elizabeth was secretly married to Robert Dudley in the House of Lord Pembroke before a number of witnesses."

 

Archive.org has Dictionary of National Biography XVI p. 114 available, but I do not see this exact phrase and am not able to find "Jan 21 1560/1561". Is there another version of this book that has the date?

https://archive.org/details/dictionaryofnati16stepuoft/page/114/mode/1up

 

Alfred Dodd mentions they were married in late September 1560 in his book, "Marriage of Elizabeth Tudor" on page 160.

https://sirbacon.org/downloads/Marriage-of-Elizabeth-Tudor_ BW_Jan7.pdf

It is openly reported (Sec Dic. Nat. Biog.) that the Queen was secretly betrothed to Dudley, and that they were married at Lord Pembroke’s House sometime in late September.

 

I was hoping to say "Happy Anniversary" to Elizabeth and Robert Dudley today, but I'm not sure on the facts yet. Page 114 of the Dictionary of National Biography XVI does state the following, but does not say late September nor January 21:

It was reported that she was formally betrothed to him, that she had secretly married him in Lord Pembroke's house, and that she was ' a mother already ' (January 1560-1).

 

Can anybody direct me to the exact source of either the late September or January 21 statement?

Thank you! 🙂

 

 

 

Alfred Dodd claims the were married in September 1960 in the Chapel of York house to try to legitimize the birth of the adulterine Francis Bacon four months later on 22nd January. Dodd claims the witnesses were Lady Anne Bacon who then adopted Bacon at birth, and Lord Puckering.

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1 hour ago, jon bentley said:

Alfred Dodd claims the were married in September 1960 in the Chapel of York house to try to legitimize the birth of the adulterine Francis Bacon four months later on 22nd January. Dodd claims the witnesses were Lady Anne Bacon who then adopted Bacon at birth, and Lord Puckering.

Thank you. I have tried to locate the actual source he refers to with no luck yet. Any ideas where it might be?

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On 1/21/2024 at 9:03 AM, Light-of-Truth said:

Dictionary of National Biography XVI p. 114 "It is herein recorded that on Jan. 21 1560/1 Queen Elizabeth was secretly married to Robert Dudley in the House of Lord Pembroke before a number of witnesses."

Rob, I believe the source is in the von Kunow book, p. 12, which is here on SirBacon.
 

"A book of which more notice will be taken later, entitled "Leicester's Commonwealth", "conceived, spoken and published with most earnest protestation of all dutiful goodwill and affection toward this realm", which first appeared in Antwerp in 1584, enters with still greater completeness and accuracy into these statements. In the "Dictionary of National Biography" the individual statements also agree with those in "Leicester's Commonwealth."

It is therein recorded that on Jan. 21, 1561, Queen Elizabeth was secretly married to Robert Dudley in the house of Lord Pembroke before a number of witnesses."

https://sirbacon.org/vonkunow.html

I haven't tracked it down past that.

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3 hours ago, Christie Waldman said:

Rob, I believe the source is in the von Kunow book, p. 12, which is here on SirBacon.
 

"A book of which more notice will be taken later, entitled "Leicester's Commonwealth", "conceived, spoken and published with most earnest protestation of all dutiful goodwill and affection toward this realm", which first appeared in Antwerp in 1584, enters with still greater completeness and accuracy into these statements. In the "Dictionary of National Biography" the individual statements also agree with those in "Leicester's Commonwealth."

It is therein recorded that on Jan. 21, 1561, Queen Elizabeth was secretly married to Robert Dudley in the house of Lord Pembroke before a number of witnesses."

https://sirbacon.org/vonkunow.html

I haven't tracked it down past that.

Yup, same "Dictionary" as Dodd referred to, and Peter Dawkins. But the "Dictionary of National Biography" is available online and I cannot find the details referenced. That "Jan. 21, 1561" quote has been shared among Baconians over some years and carries some influence. The exact source would be so valuable! There may be another version I have not found.

I have not looked into the 1584 "Leicester's Commonwealth" on this quest though.

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Hi Rob,

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n225/mode/2up?q=Queene

Here is a link to Leycester's common-wealth.

Alas, at first glance, with the help of key words, I did not find any references to a secret marriage.

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n43/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n221/mode/2up

image.png.80b5453d3a2cfa503b9a228b88a26d37.png

 

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9 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said:

Hi Rob,

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n225/mode/2up?q=Queene

Here is a link to Leycester's common-wealth.

Alas, at first glance, with the help of key words, I did not find any references to a secret marriage.

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n43/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n221/mode/2up

image.png.80b5453d3a2cfa503b9a228b88a26d37.png

 

"Alas, at first glance..."? LOL

I'm planning on my first glance in a little while already following you lead... 🙂

 

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Peter Dawkins' essay, "Queen Elizabeth I Pregnancy, Secret Marriage, and Childbirth," has some additional references and puts the story in good order. He says von Kunow wrote the DNB entry! (That surprises me that she would be allowed to do that.). The letters of De Quadra are a source of some of this information, but he is repeating what he was told. Dawkins recounts the anecdote about Queen Victoria being shown the document about the marriage and throwing it into the fire. Here is Dawkins' essay: https://www.fbrt.org.uk/essays-2/. Whatever she told in confession should have been kept confidential. (Oops! I see this essay has already been mentioned--1-28-24.)

Edited by Christie Waldman
sorry--did not see Peter Dawkins' essay had been mentioned.
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52 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said:

Hi Rob,

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n225/mode/2up?q=Queene

Here is a link to Leycester's common-wealth.

Alas, at first glance, with the help of key words, I did not find any references to a secret marriage.

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n43/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n221/mode/2up

image.png.80b5453d3a2cfa503b9a228b88a26d37.png

 

Wow! These lines share a lot.

Knowing it is really hard to click a link, I'll paste a screenshot of the last link so maybe one more person might read it! 😉

image.png.5eadcc80f2f4fe5cb021bb63a1da1030.png

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1 hour ago, Allisnum2er said:

Hi Rob,

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n225/mode/2up?q=Queene

Here is a link to Leycester's common-wealth.

Alas, at first glance, with the help of key words, I did not find any references to a secret marriage.

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n43/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/leycesterscommon00pars_0/page/n221/mode/2up

image.png.80b5453d3a2cfa503b9a228b88a26d37.png

 

Leycester's common-wealth came up a year or two ago, and I believe it was A. Phoenix who suggested I read it. They shared quite a bit about it here on the B'Hive, but I've never looked into it to explore.

Look at page 33:

"* The children of adulters shall be consumed, and seed for a wicked bed shall be rooted out , saith God, Sap. 3."

Rooted out? Like by a Hog?

Page 33? Where is that vneare'd womb anyway?

image.png.828bc6841be94662d8506a968ab59182.png

 

 

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2 hours ago, Allisnum2er said:

Alas, at first glance, with the help of key words, I did not find any references to a secret marriage.

This is so much fun, maybe I am starting to see better. Page 32 that has the word "Mother" in it, brings up a "yong Sonne by the Widdow," then page 33 begins all about Bacon and his infancy. SOW, the Sow rooting up things.

Of course, right? Or maybe I am dreaming this up... 😉

image.png.3f7e68d6d0aa5aca4dfe899b788d831e.png

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14 hours ago, jon bentley said:

Alfred Dodd claims the were married in September 1960 in the Chapel of York house to try to legitimize the birth of the adulterine Francis Bacon four months later on 22nd January. Dodd claims the witnesses were Lady Anne Bacon who then adopted Bacon at birth, and Lord Puckering.

Please correct typo (1960). 🙂

Edited by Eric Roberts
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10 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Leycester's common-wealth came up a year or two ago, and I believe it was A. Phoenix who suggested I read it. They shared quite a bit about it here on the B'Hive, but I've never looked into it to explore.

Look at page 33:

"* The children of adulters shall be consumed, and seed for a wicked bed shall be rooted out , saith God, Sap. 3."

Rooted out? Like by a Hog?

Page 33? Where is that vneare'd womb anyway?

image.png.828bc6841be94662d8506a968ab59182.png

 

 

In the margin, we have a reference to Wisdom of Salomon 3:16

 16. As for the children of adulterers, they shall not come to their perfection, and the seed of an unrighteous bed shall be rooted out.

17. For though they live long, yet shall they be nothing regarded: and their last age shall be without honour.

With the following verse that complete the first sentence, it gives 16 + 17 = 33

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