Kevin box Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Why was Francis Bacon referred to as a Phoenix? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Phoenix Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 FRANCIS BACON AND THE PHOENIX Hi Kevin, The mythical immortal bird the Phoenix that lives every four or five hundred years is a symbol of renaissance and rebirth and has long been associated with Lord Bacon and his Rosicrucian-Freemasonry Brotherhood. Behind his pseudonym Shakespeare in Henry VIII Lord Bacon refers to himself as the Phoenix who was destined to become the Father of the Modern World and change the future direction of humanity. The Shakespeare play covers only a part of Henry VIII’s reign from the Field of the Cloth of Gold in 1520 to the christening of Princess Elizabeth in 1533. Among other things it depicts the rise to the king’s favour of Anne Boleyn and the birth to Henry and Anne of a daughter, instead of the longed for son. A grand procession escorts the newly born royal infant before the assembled court where she is solemnly presented to the king by Archbishop Cranmer. Writing in retrospect in a play written years after Elizabeth’s death Cranmer presents a prophecy (a dramatic invention by Bacon) in which the phoenix-like Princess Elizabeth in turn gives birth to a phoenix-like son and heir. A star which the fullness of time would reveal to be as great in fame as she was, one who would found new nations (United States of America); who is likened in Rosicrucian metaphorical language to mountain cedar branches (reminiscent of the cedar used for the building of King Solomon’s Temple representing the symbolic or mythical beginnings of Freemasonry); who would like a slow growing vine, together with his Rosicrucian Brotherhood, secretly and invisibly build a new world for the future of mankind, which when eventually revealed the children of posterity will give thanks to heaven, and fully rejoice of him: For heaven now bids me, and the words I utter Let none think flattery, for they’ll find ‘em truth. This royal infant-heaven still move about her- Though in her cradle, yet now promises Upon this land a thousand thousand blessings Which time shall bring to ripeness. She shall be- But few now living can behold that goodness- A pattern to all princes living with her, And all that shall succeed. Saba was never More covetous of wisdom and fair virtue Than this pure soul shall be. All princely graces That mould up such a mighty piece as this is, With all the virtues that attend the good, Shall be doubled on her. Truth shall nurse her, Holy and heavenly thoughts still counsel her. She shall be loved and feared. Her own shall bless her; Her foes shake like a field of beaten corn, And hang their heads with sorrow. Good grows with her. In her days every man shall eat in safety Under his own vine what he plants, and sing The merry songs of peace to all his neighbours. God shall truly be known, and those about her From her shall read the perfect ways of honour, And by those claim their greatness, not by blood. Nor shall this peace sleep with her, but, as when The bird of wonder dies-the maiden phoenix- Her ashes new create another heir As great in admiration as herself, So shall she leave her blessedness to one, When heaven shall call her from this cloud of darkness, Who from the sacred ashes of her honour Shall star-like rise as great in fame as she was, And so stand fixed. Peace, plenty, love, truth, terror, That were the servants to this chosen infant, Shall then be his, and, like a vine, grow to him. Wherever the bright sun of heaven shall shine, His honour and the greatness of his name Shall be, and make new nations. He shall flourish, And like a mountain cedar reach his branches To all the plains about him. Our children’s children Shall see this, and bless heaven. [Henry VIII: 5:4:15-55] 3 1 https://aphoenix1.academia.edu/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrY7wzlXnZiT1Urwx7jP6fQ/videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalCraftiness Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kevin box said: Why was Francis Bacon referred to as a Phoenix? Thanks Be very careful with this suggestion. It's not an accepted idea. When you do an AI assisted search for this question you end up with a return that says that "it seems that some people have made this link". If you follow the links you will find that it works it back specifically to suggestions made by people who post here. It is worth noting that the AI ends by saying that this does not appear to be widely accepted. When you dive into the details you will notice that the theories revolve around Francis Bacon having one more alternate identity. A play called "Like Will to Like" written by Ulpian Fulwell is attributed to him (?) and it seems to be the origin of the suggestion when paired with the idea that the work fits in the greater conspiracy which in already in motion when Bacon is a boy. This is clearly not known. The Wikipedia page for this individual makes no such claim. Ulpian Fulwell - Wikipedia There are a few potential reasons why the Phoenix was associated with Rosicrucianism. It's a symbol of death and resurrection which is absolutely paramount in the Christian Empiricists views. Birds are a central theme in the stories. The Phoenix Nest - Wikipedia is an interesting work to look at if you like the literary suggestion in England. That work was set forth by " "R. S. of the Inner Temple Gentleman". It includes contributions by DeVere who others claim as a Phoenix. Equating Bacon to the Phoenix is a way to get him involved in the intrigue. It takes a few leaps of faith to get going. We cannot possibly conclude that any and all references to the mythical Phoenix which appear in literature points to Bacon. And we do not know that we should be involving him. Suffice to say, he can be made to fit as well as others. Francis may even have taken a liking to it as a metaphor for the implementation of his Novum Organum. Certain very old ideas had to be "burned" to the ground before new ideas could rise from the ashes. In this case it would not be Bacon who was the Phoenix, but mankind's quality of knowledge itself. Replacing superstition with reason while using a myth to symbolize it does appear strange on some level. Bacon may not have described it that way, but the literary minds of the day could have done that. Ideas relating to the Phoenix nesting in the Hesperides (a blissful garden in some far off part of the Western World) may make allusion to North America. In Ancient lore the place has an association with the Atlas mountains and the myths of Hercules. Heading for the Hesperides looking for the golden apples can be thought of as a quest. Atalanta, in Maier's Rosicrucian work, is known for her hunt of a boar. This is another way people inject Bacon into the mix. There's quite a bit of latitude in what can be suggested. Some people are often skillfully hunting for a boar with Bacon. When the British seized the French possessions in North America the myth of the Phoenix was evoked to speak of a vision of new Protestant society that would rise from the ashes of the burnt Catholic one. The plan to recolonize Nova Scotia involved rebuilding townships on the burnt ashes of the French villages, so it was very much a relevant metaphor to be using. It was language used by the New England Freemasons who made up the colonial military government. This appears to speak to their familiarity with the idea/theme. One can just as easily use it to speak of the 30 years wars in England. There were a lot of political currents that could have used this symbolism. To answer your question bluntly, we do not know that he is. Some narratives might want to do that. Edited September 23 by RoyalCraftiness 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Phoenix Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 FRANCIS BACON AND HIS FIRST PLAY LIKE WILL TO LIKE SEE A PHOENIX, 'THE EARLIEST PLAY WRITTEN BY FRANCIS BACON WHEN HE WAS ONLY SEVEN YEARS OLD LIKE WILL TO LIKE ONE OF THREE WORKS WRITTEN IN THE NAME OF HIS LITERARY MASK ULPIAN FULWELL AND THEIR LINKS TO HIS SHAKESPEARE PLAYS', pp. 1-133 (333 REFERENCES). It is revealed here for the first time in the academic research paper and accompanying video that Francis Bacon wrote the play Like Will to Like when he was seven years old. This morality play is about good and evil and its central character is Newfangle the Vice. The dichotomy of good and evil or the colours of good and evil was later written large across the much more expansive canvass of his Shakespeare poems and plays and as pointed out by orthodox editors and scholars the figure of the Vice is refracted through various Shakespeare villains and characters i.e. Lucrece, Aaron the Moor in Titus Andronicus, Richard III, Don John in Much Ado About Nothing, Iago in Othello, etc. From his early days until his last the subject of good and evil profoundly engaged his vast intellect. Over the period of his lifetime Bacon assembled a very large number of what he calls ‘Semblances or popularities of good and evill with their regulations for deliberacions’ in his Promus of Formularies and Elegancies (his private note-book) in which he jotted down thoughts and phrases some of which he later used in his acknowledged writings and his Shakespeare poems and plays. In the Promus there are around a hundred of his collection of colours of good and evil presented without any explanation indicating Bacon intended to publish a substantial treatise on the subject. However the first published version entitled Of the Colours of Good and Evil A Fragment printed in the first edition of his Essays includes only ten from the hundred in the Promus. When towards the end of his recorded life Bacon revised and greatly enlarged the Advancement for its Latin translation De Augmentis Scientiarum he reprinted the original fragment of the Colours of Good and Evil printed in the first edition of his Essays to which he added a further two colours. After the twelfth and final colour of good and evil he makes an astonishing admission: ‘I have by me indeed a great many more Sophisms [Colours of Good and Evil] of the same kind, which I collected in my youth’. And in the closing song of Twelfth Night or What You Will Bacon reveals that when he was a young boy he wrote the morality play Like Will to Like (see pp. 104-7). The play written by Bacon when he was only seven years old was registered on the Stationers’ Register in circa September 1568 ‘Recevyd of John alde for his lycense for prynting of a play lyke Wyll to lyke quod the Deuell to the Collyer …iiijd’. It was first printed towards the end of 1568 by the printer John Allde to give it its full title as An Enterlude Intituled Like Wil to Like quod the Deuel to the Colier, very godly and full of pleasant mirth. Wherin is declared not onely what punishment followeth those that wil rather followe licentious liuing, then to esteem & followe good councel: and what great benefits and commodities they receiue that apply them unto vertuous liuing and good exercises. In The Art of Flattery Bacon employed an anagram to conceal and reveal his authorship and in Like Will to Like he similarly marked its true provenance with another anagram on the very first page of its text. It commences with the name of Lady Bacon’s favourite author Cicero in its first six lines (3+3=6 which when the numbers 3 and 3 are placed together they yield 33 Bacon in simple cipher) in its first paragraph as follows: CIcero in his book de amicitia these woords dooth expresse, Saying nothing is more desirous then like is unto like Whose woords are moste true & of a certaintie doutles: For the vertuous doo not the vertuous company mislike. But the vicious doo the vertuous company eschue: And like wil unto like, this is moste true. It will be observed that the first letters commencing the first six lines are C, S, W, F, B, A which form an anagram. Due to the deliberate formatting four letters F BAC are separated by the indenting of the other two lines. If we rearrange the four letters they alone spell out F BAC evidently a contraction of F. Bacon. Yet we need not solely rely on this contraction. The other two letters required to spell out F. Bacon the O and N are printed next to the F and A in the fourth and sixth lines respectively thus yielding F BACON in full. The other two remaining letters W and S numerically represent the equivalent of 21 and 18: 21+18=39 F. Bacon in simple cipher. The first line (not including ‘de amicitia’ which is in different type) comprises 39 letters again F. Bacon in simple cipher and the last line 33 letters Bacon in simple cipher which is the sixth line: 33+6=39 F. Bacon in simple cipher. The six line paragraph contains 56 words Fr. Bacon in simple cipher. The whole page itself comprises the header ‘The Prologue’ and 32 full lines of text: 1+32=33 Bacon in simple cipher. When this is added to the 3 letters in the signature (B. ii) and the 3 letters in the tail-word ‘And’: 33+3+3= 39 F. Bacon in simple cipher. A B C D E F G H I K L M N O P Q R S T U W X Y Z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 B A C O N F. B A C O N F R B A C O N 2 1 3 14 13=33 6 2 1 3 14 13=39 6 17 2 1 3 14 13=56 1 3 https://aphoenix1.academia.edu/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrY7wzlXnZiT1Urwx7jP6fQ/videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allisnum2er Posted September 23 Share Posted September 23 Hi Kevin, Here are my two cents, echoing the two great posts of A Phoenix and my own research. (For the numbering of the lines, I count from the beginning of Cranmer's Prophecy ... "Let me speak, Sir ") Interestingly, the letters forming "BACON" and "SOW" are on lines 30,31 and 32. 30 + 31 + 32 = 93 # I.C. (See Phoenix/INRI) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Roberts Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 10 hours ago, A Phoenix said: FRANCIS BACON AND THE PHOENIX Hi Kevin, The mythical immortal bird the Phoenix that lives every four or five hundred years is a symbol of renaissance and rebirth and has long been associated with Lord Bacon and his Rosicrucian-Freemasonry Brotherhood. Behind his pseudonym Shakespeare in Henry VIII Lord Bacon refers to himself as the Phoenix who was destined to become the Father of the Modern World and change the future direction of humanity. The Shakespeare play covers only a part of Henry VIII’s reign from the Field of the Cloth of Gold in 1520 to the christening of Princess Elizabeth in 1533. Among other things it depicts the rise to the king’s favour of Anne Boleyn and the birth to Henry and Anne of a daughter, instead of the longed for son. A grand procession escorts the newly born royal infant before the assembled court where she is solemnly presented to the king by Archbishop Cranmer. Writing in retrospect in a play written years after Elizabeth’s death Cranmer presents a prophecy (a dramatic invention by Bacon) in which the phoenix-like Princess Elizabeth in turn gives birth to a phoenix-like son and heir. A star which the fullness of time would reveal to be as great in fame as she was, one who would found new nations (United States of America); who is likened in Rosicrucian metaphorical language to mountain cedar branches (reminiscent of the cedar used for the building of King Solomon’s Temple representing the symbolic or mythical beginnings of Freemasonry); who would like a slow growing vine, together with his Rosicrucian Brotherhood, secretly and invisibly build a new world for the future of mankind, which when eventually revealed the children of posterity will give thanks to heaven, and fully rejoice of him: For heaven now bids me, and the words I utter Let none think flattery, for they’ll find ‘em truth. This royal infant-heaven still move about her- Though in her cradle, yet now promises Upon this land a thousand thousand blessings Which time shall bring to ripeness. She shall be- But few now living can behold that goodness- A pattern to all princes living with her, And all that shall succeed. Saba was never More covetous of wisdom and fair virtue Than this pure soul shall be. All princely graces That mould up such a mighty piece as this is, With all the virtues that attend the good, Shall be doubled on her. Truth shall nurse her, Holy and heavenly thoughts still counsel her. She shall be loved and feared. Her own shall bless her; Her foes shake like a field of beaten corn, And hang their heads with sorrow. Good grows with her. In her days every man shall eat in safety Under his own vine what he plants, and sing The merry songs of peace to all his neighbours. God shall truly be known, and those about her From her shall read the perfect ways of honour, And by those claim their greatness, not by blood. Nor shall this peace sleep with her, but, as when The bird of wonder dies-the maiden phoenix- Her ashes new create another heir As great in admiration as herself, So shall she leave her blessedness to one, When heaven shall call her from this cloud of darkness, Who from the sacred ashes of her honour Shall star-like rise as great in fame as she was, And so stand fixed. Peace, plenty, love, truth, terror, That were the servants to this chosen infant, Shall then be his, and, like a vine, grow to him. Wherever the bright sun of heaven shall shine, His honour and the greatness of his name Shall be, and make new nations. He shall flourish, And like a mountain cedar reach his branches To all the plains about him. Our children’s children Shall see this, and bless heaven. [Henry VIII: 5:4:15-55] What an amazing visionary statement. From a conventional perspective, it makes little sense: The bird of wonder dies-the maiden phoenix- Her ashes new create another heir What did audiences in 1613 make of the 'prophecy' that the late Queen Elizabeth - the "maiden Phoenix" - would have an heir? Under the original title, "All is True", this is the play that famously burnt down the Globe Theatre. During a performance of Henry VIII at the Globe Theatre in 1613, a cannon shot employed for special effects ignited the theatre's thatched roof (and the beams), burning the original Globe building to the ground. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII_(play) But who was John Fletcher who supposedly wrote in collaboration with Shakespeare/Bacon? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fletcher_(playwright) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Phoenix Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 Hi Yann, I just love it when you throw in your 'two cents'. I have had the misfortune of reading numerous interminable orthodox tomes from every angle on Shakspere/Shakespeare full of worthless vacuous waffle which produce little or nothing of any real value on the subject (as we know it can be difficult to get away from it) whereas you Maestro with surpassing modesty make world first discoveries and observations, more or less, as you breathe. It is a humbling privilege to share a platform with you. 3 1 https://aphoenix1.academia.edu/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrY7wzlXnZiT1Urwx7jP6fQ/videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Roberts Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 3 hours ago, A Phoenix said: Hi Yann, I just love it when you throw in your 'two cents'. I have had the misfortune of reading numerous interminable orthodox tomes from every angle on Shakspere/Shakespeare full of worthless vacuous waffle which produce little or nothing of any real value on the subject (as we know it can be difficult to get away from it) whereas you Maestro with surpassing modesty make world first discoveries and observations, more or less, as you breathe. It is a humbling privilege to share a platform with you. Hear, hear! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allisnum2er Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 3 hours ago, A Phoenix said: Hi Yann, I just love it when you throw in your 'two cents'. I have had the misfortune of reading numerous interminable orthodox tomes from every angle on Shakspere/Shakespeare full of worthless vacuous waffle which produce little or nothing of any real value on the subject (as we know it can be difficult to get away from it) whereas you Maestro with surpassing modesty make world first discoveries and observations, more or less, as you breathe. It is a humbling privilege to share a platform with you. My heartfelt thanks A Phoenix ! ❤️ Be assured that the humbling privilege to share a platform with you is mutual ! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allisnum2er Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 Kevin, Here is something else for you regarding Francis Bacon and the Phoenix. Manes Verulamiani, published in 1626 after Francis Bacon's Death, contains 32 elegies (even if I would say 33 by counting Rawley's Essay). Talking about Bacon and the number 33, there are 33 printed pages and 34 pages in total by counting from the Title-Page. 33 = BACON 33 + 34 = 67 = FRANCIS Now, if we count from "Lectori S." there are 32 pages. Interestingly, we have a Phoenix in the ornemental Letter right at the beginning, and " Sic Phoenix" at the beginning of the last page. Considering that "Lectori S." is the first page (1) and the one with "Phoenix" the last page (32). The two Phoenixes provides us with another 33. 😉 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Phoenix Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 THE CIPHER ON THE TITLE PAGE OF THE MEMORIAE CONFIRMING LORD BACON IS SHAKESPEARE JUST A REMINDER. On the title page there are 83 letters above the horizontal line and 5 words below it plus the addition of the date 1+6+2+6=15: 83+5+15=103 Shakespeare in simple cipher elegantly conveying the simple hidden message that Bacon is Shakespeare. SIMPLE REALLY. LORD SUCH FOOLS THESE MORTALS BE! 3 1 https://aphoenix1.academia.edu/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrY7wzlXnZiT1Urwx7jP6fQ/videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allisnum2er Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 19 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said: The Phoenix Nest - Wikipedia is an interesting work to look at if you like the literary suggestion in England. That work was set forth by " "R. S. of the Inner Temple Gentleman". It includes contributions by DeVere who others claim as a Phoenix. Hi CJ, You mentions The Phoenix Nest. My research led me to this Book 3 or 4 years ago. The Phoenix Nest was published in 1593, the same year as Venus and Adonis, when Francis Bacon was 33 years old. At that time, I did not explore it in all details, but some details immediatly caught my attention. The Book is dedicated not to Thomas Seymour ( that for some Oxfordians could be the father of E.O.) but to ... ROBERT DUDLEY, who was Queen Elizabeth's Lover and who died in 1588 ( 5 years before the publication ot The Phoenix Nest). And Francis Bacon could be the secret child of the "Virgin" Queen and Robert Dudley. Before to find The Phoenix Nest, one question remained in my mind regarding Francis Bacon's "Christic" birth. Indeed, for a "Christic" birth, we need a Virgin and ... God !!! And in my mind, Robert Dudley was not God. Imagine my surprise discovering the anonymous poem dedicated to Robert Dudley in The Phoenix Nest : Leicester he liv'd, of all the world admir'd, Not as a man, though he in shape exceld : But as a God, whose heavenlie wit inspir'd, Wrought hie effects, yet vertues courses held, His wisdome honored his Countries name, His valure was the vangard of the fame. https://books.google.fr/books?id=7OQ-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&hl=fr&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=Semper&f=false So we have the Virgin Queen Elizabeth in Love with Robert Dudley who liv'd, of all the world admir'd, not as a man but as a God ! For me, the equation was complete : Virgin (Queen Elizabeth) + God (Robert Dudley) = 33 (BACON) You mentions the Earle of Oxford, and indeed some of the poems are signed by him (E.O.) But there are a lot of "anonymous" poems. And I am wondering who is behind " The Excellent Dialogue between constancie and inconstancie" which was part of Sir Henry Lee's Entertainment of Elizabeth in 1592. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_of_Ditchley Interestingly enough this Speech, in The Phoenix Nest, ends on page F 33 with the following words... "TO BE MYSELF AS SHE IS SEMPER EADEM" (One of Queen Elizabeth's motto) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriele_Giolito_de'_Ferrari#/media/File:Giolito_phoenix_1552.jpg The Phoenix Portrait https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elizabeth1_Phoenix.jpg 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalCraftiness Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 (edited) 3 hours ago, Allisnum2er said: Hi CJ, You mentions The Phoenix Nest. My research led me to this Book 3 or 4 years ago. The Phoenix Nest was published in 1593, the same year as Venus and Adonis, when Francis Bacon was 33 years old. At that time, I did not explore it in all details, but some details immediatly caught my attention. The Book is dedicated not to Thomas Seymour ( that for some Oxfordians could be the father of E.O.) but to ... ROBERT DUDLEY, who was Queen Elizabeth's Lover and who died in 1588 ( 5 years before the publication ot The Phoenix Nest). And Francis Bacon could be the secret child of the "Virgin" Queen and Robert Dudley. Before to find The Phoenix Nest, one question remained in my mind regarding Francis Bacon's "Christic" birth. Indeed, for a "Christic" birth, we need a Virgin and ... God !!! And in my mind, Robert Dudley was not God. Imagine my surprise discovering the anonymous poem dedicated to Robert Dudley in The Phoenix Nest : Leicester he liv'd, of all the world admir'd, Not as a man, though he in shape exceld : But as a God, whose heavenlie wit inspir'd, Wrought hie effects, yet vertues courses held, His wisdome honored his Countries name, His valure was the vangard of the fame. https://books.google.fr/books?id=7OQ-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&hl=fr&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q=Semper&f=false So we have the Virgin Queen Elizabeth in Love with Robert Dudley who liv'd, of all the world admir'd, not as a man but as a God ! For me, the equation was complete : Virgin (Queen Elizabeth) + God (Robert Dudley) = 33 (BACON) You mentions the Earle of Oxford, and indeed some of the poems are signed by him (E.O.) But there are a lot of "anonymous" poems. And I am wondering who is behind " The Excellent Dialogue between constancie and inconstancie" which was part of Sir Henry Lee's Entertainment of Elizabeth in 1592. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Lee_of_Ditchley Interestingly enough this Speech, in The Phoenix Nest, ends on page F 33 with the following words... "TO BE MYSELF AS SHE IS SEMPER EADEM" (One of Queen Elizabeth's motto) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriele_Giolito_de'_Ferrari#/media/File:Giolito_phoenix_1552.jpg The Phoenix Portrait https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Elizabeth1_Phoenix.jpg Bacon would hve been 32 for all of 1593. If we look at the Wikipedia article it does a pretty good job at listing the various associations that have been made with the Phoenix. "symbolize renewal in general as well as the sun, time, the Empire, metempsychosis, consecration, resurrection, life in the heavenly Paradise, Christ, Mary, virginity, the exceptional man, and certain aspects of Christian life".[3] Some scholars have claimed that the poem De ave phoenice may present the mythological phoenix motif as a symbol of Christ's resurrection.[4] This passage is of particular interest: "In time, the motif and concept of the phoenix extended from its origins in ancient Greek folklore. For example, the classical motif of the phoenix continues into the Gnostic manuscript On the Origin of the World from the Nag Hammadi Library collection in Egypt generally dated to the 4th century:[30] Thus when Sophia Zoe saw that the rulers of darkness had laid a curse upon her counterparts, she was indignant. And coming out of the first heaven with full power, she chased those rulers out of their heavens and cast them into the sinful world, so that there they should dwell, in the form of evil spirits upon the earth. [...], so that in their world it might pass the thousand years in paradise—a soul-endowed living creature called "phoenix". It kills itself and brings itself back to life as a witness to the judgement against them, for they did wrong to Adam and his race, unto the consummation of the age. There are [...] three men, and also his posterities, unto the consummation of the world: the spirit-endowed of eternity, and the soul-endowed, and the earthly. Likewise, there are three phoenixes in paradise—the first is immortal, the second lives 1,000 years; as for the third, it is written in the sacred book that it is consumed. So, too, there are three baptisms—the first is spiritual, the second is by fire, the third is by water. Just as the phoenix appears as a witness concerning the angels, so the case of the water hydri in Egypt, which has been a witness to those going down into the baptism of a true man. The two bulls in Egypt posses a mystery, the Sun and the Moon, being a witness to Sabaoth: namely, that over them Sophia received the universe; from the day that she made the Sun and Moon, she put a seal upon her heaven, unto eternity. And the worm that has been born out of the phoenix is a human being as well. It is written concerning it, "the just man will blossom like a phoenix". And the phoenix first appears in a living state, and dies, and rises again, being a sign of what has become apparent at the consummation of the age." The thousand year cycle seems to have been something that Bacon employed. The publication of the text also coincides with the first astronomical observation of the stars of the Constellation named Phoenix which was first depicted on a celestial globe around 1593. Of interest to us may be the fact that it is bunched with what is called the Southern Birds. It's latitude encompasses -40 which is mirrored by Cygnus' +40. Robert Dudley was a very well informed astronomer, for what that is worth. So was DeVere. Its "nest " can have a few meanings. Because man has an association with the worm born out of the phoenix this does have a possible meaning for the nest--the garden of Eden on Earth. We can then draw similarities to that with the mythical garden of the Hesperides and the tree which bears the special fruit where the Phoenix is said to nest. Jerusalem had an association with the East and the garden of the Herespides to the West. It's nest in the heavens has its location too. For everyone who lives above the 40th parallel it is invisible (always under the horizon). There's an obvious problem with starting off with a theory and seeing if one can fit it into the various motifs that one encounters. The Phoenix can work on so many levels. Is it possible to do, yes. Is this unique? Not really. Is Bacon a Phoenix? On some levels you might say that, and on others no not much. There is something about the numerology once associated with the Phoenix that I have noticed. The lifespan of the Phoenix was said to be 972 times that of the long lived human. That's a very specific number to be given to multiply with one that has no specificity. We might be tempted to ask why 972? The obvious place to look is its factorization. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 12, 18, 27, 36, 54, 81, 108, 162, 243, 324, 486, 972. There are 18 factors. 9+7+2=18. By now you might recognize the presence of 27, 54, 81 an 108 in there. The powers of 3: 3^0, 3^1, 3^2, 3^3, 3^4, 3^5 are found. 3^6 is not found, but that would be 729 which utilizes the same digits as 972. 108 has an association with celestial proportion (Sun and Moon) and for being a ratio the long cycle of astronomical precession. One could suggest that the number has the noticeable property of involving the Masonic numerology. In fact there are 27 (rounded) of those 972 year cycles in one pression cycle. 3 precession cycles might be a long lived human life. It would appear that 972 has a basis in 3 which is very much an integral part of the story of the Phoenix. On a personal front I have an idea that 3 birds are of importance in the stories. A white one, a black one (chiral opposites) and the Phoenix which ties the cycle of life and death together are the suspects. Herge made a point to involve "les freres L'oiseau" in his adaptation of the story. Life, death and resurrections to discover the lost heritage...follow the cross and the evangelist. I love the various adaptations of the story. Edited September 24 by RoyalCraftiness 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin box Posted September 24 Author Share Posted September 24 Thanks to everyone for the great info and for sharing your various perspectives. Special thanks to Gerald for providing a terrific resource. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light-of-Truth Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 Hey Kevin, I am adding one of few songs containing "Phoenix" that is NOT referring to the city in Arizona. 🙂 I do remember Pink Floyd mentioning a Phoenix but its not at the front of my brain at the moment. I may look later. Been a busy few days for me... 2 T A A A A A A A A A A A T 157 www.Light-of-Truth.com 287 <-- 1 8 8 1 1 O 1 1 8 8 1 --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allisnum2er Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 6 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said: Bacon would hve been 32 for all of 1593. Please correct me if I am wrong. Rawley tells us in Resuscitatio that Francis Bacon was born "on the 22nd Day of January ; in the Year of our Lord 1560." This is based on the Julian Calendar. At that time the New Year's Day was Lady Day (Day of the Feast of the Annunciation), the 25th of March. (In Great Britain, the Gregorian Calendar was adopted in 1757.) The Year 1593 started the 25th Day of march 1593 and ended ... the 24th Day of march 1593 🙂 . Francis Bacon turned 33 the 22nd of January 1593. Thus, he was 33 years old for a part of 1593, from the 22nd Day of January to the 24th Day of march 1593. In any event, thank you for your post. I did not know that the lifespan of the Phoenix was said to be 972. This is very interesting. https://www.maicar.com/GML/PhoenixTheBird.html https://www.academia.edu/49299491/Myth_of_the_Phoenix_According_to_Classical_and_Early_Christian_Traditions_by_Van_den_Broek_Roel_B_SIide_Note_THIS_BOOK_IS_VERY_DIFFICULT_TO_FIND_ANYWNERE_ONLINE_OR_ANYWHERE_ELSE_FOR_THAT_MATTER_ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light-of-Truth Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 21 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said: Francis Bacon turned 33 the 22nd of January 1593. That's the way I see, after decades of trying to figure it out. 🙂 1 T A A A A A A A A A A A T 157 www.Light-of-Truth.com 287 <-- 1 8 8 1 1 O 1 1 8 8 1 --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light-of-Truth Posted September 24 Share Posted September 24 On 9/23/2023 at 9:23 AM, Kevin box said: Why was Francis Bacon referred to as a Phoenix? OK, I can Baconate a little while tonight, but not real long. Let me share a Sonnets thought. Sonnet 19: DEuouring time blunt thou the Lyons pawes, And make the earth deuoure her owne sweet brood, Plucke the keene teeth from the fierce Tygers yawes, And burne the long liu'd Phænix in her blood, Make glad and sorry seasons as thou fleet'st, And do what ere thou wilt swift-footed time To the wide world and all her fading sweets: But I forbid thee one most hainous crime, O carue not with thy howers my loues faire brow, Nor draw noe lines there with thine antique pen, Him in thy course vntainted doe allow, For beauties patterne to succeding men. Yet doe thy worst ould Time dispight thy wrong, My loue shall in my verse euer liue young. Of course the "Phoenix" line is this: And burne the long liu'd Phænix in her blood, It is Line 256 of the Sonnets, Line 4 of Sonnet 19, the first full Line of Day 44. https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#Sonnet019 Check out the 1609 facsimile here. What is Sonnet 19 saying? Funny as I am sure Oxies might jump on the "DEuouring time" and "deuoure her owne" as they have adopted the Baconian "Virgin Birth" story to make "De-anything" in Shakespeare smell like that specific Earl of Oxfart. But I am a Dee guy, and again I hear Bacon describing Dee wasting Bacon's life, Deevouring time, allowing the Earth to Deevour his mother's own. But hey, that's just me. First four lines of Sonnet 19 to me are about Dee manipulating Bacon's and Elizabeth's lives which is repeated several times in the Sonnets. DEuouring time blunt thou the Lyons pawes, And make the earth deuoure her owne sweet brood, Plucke the keene teeth from the fierce Tygers yawes, And burne the long liu'd Phænix in her blood, Tudors can be suggested, Elizabeth for sure. But so can others as well I suppose. I'm sharing what I see. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_England You know I follow a hunch that Bacon was born as William Tudor, the first William after William I. The next 8 lines: Make glad and sorry seasons as thou fleet'st, And do what ere thou wilt swift-footed time To the wide world and all her fading sweets: But I forbid thee one most hainous crime, O carue not with thy howers my loues faire brow, Nor draw noe lines there with thine antique pen, Him in thy course vntainted doe allow, For beauties patterne to succeding men. So Bacon is speaking to or about Time and how his life is being devoured and it is not in his control. Dee is hinted at, as usual in these kinds of Sonnets. "But I forbid the most heinous crime; carving your hours on my Mother's brow or drawing lines with some antique pen. Him (Bacon) even with Dee's course allows for Elzabeth's life to succession (Bacon)." Or something like that... 😉 Curious thing about Sonnet 19, counting from the end of the Sonnets it would be Sonnet 136. Or we could say Sonnet 136 is Sonnet 19 from the end. Sonnet 136, the one where Francis Bacon actually in full overt plain text says his name is "Will" as he is speaking to his Mother, Elizabeth. IF thy soule check thee that I come so neere, Sweare to thy blind soule that I was thy Will, And will thy soule knowes is admitted there, Thus farre for loue, my loue-sute sweet fullfill. Will, will fulfill the treasure of thy loue, I fill it full with wils,and my will one, In things of great receit with ease we prooue. Among a number one is reckon'd none. Then in the number let me passe vntold, Though in thy stores account I one must be, For nothing hold me,so it please thee hold, That nothing me,a some-thing sweet to thee. Make but my name thy loue,and loue that still, And then thou louest me for my name is Will. The Phoenix Sonnet (19) is the perfect mirror Sonnet of the most important Sonnet of them all (136), with perhaps the most important single Line in all of Shakespeare. OK, CJ can pick this to a million pieces yet I still see what I see, and feel what I feel. And if I had time I would share Deeper thoughts. 😉 2 T A A A A A A A A A A A T 157 www.Light-of-Truth.com 287 <-- 1 8 8 1 1 O 1 1 8 8 1 --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Phoenix Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 Hi Yann, As you correctly state, in the Resuscitatio, Dr Rawley states that Lord Bacon was born by the Julian Calendar on 22 January 1560, i.e., otherwise stated as 22 January 1560-1. In Great Britain the Gregorian Calendar was adopted in 1752 from which time the New Year began on I January. By the Gregorian Calendar it is now stated that Lord Bacon was born on 22 January 1561. In 1593 Lord Bacon was in his 33rd year. Your point is still valid and stands. The Phoenix Nest was published in 1593 the same year Lord Bacon set forth his narrative Shakespeare poem Venus and Adonis and following his 33rd birthday on 22 Janaury 1594 sometime later in the year he set forth his second narrative Shakespeare poem The Rape of Lucrece. 2 https://aphoenix1.academia.edu/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrY7wzlXnZiT1Urwx7jP6fQ/videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalCraftiness Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 (edited) 16 hours ago, Allisnum2er said: Please correct me if I am wrong. Rawley tells us in Resuscitatio that Francis Bacon was born "on the 22nd Day of January ; in the Year of our Lord 1560." This is based on the Julian Calendar. At that time the New Year's Day was Lady Day (Day of the Feast of the Annunciation), the 25th of March. (In Great Britain, the Gregorian Calendar was adopted in 1757.) The Year 1593 started the 25th Day of march 1593 and ended ... the 24th Day of march 1593 🙂 . Francis Bacon turned 33 the 22nd of January 1593. Thus, he was 33 years old for a part of 1593, from the 22nd Day of January to the 24th Day of march 1593. In any event, thank you for your post. I did not know that the lifespan of the Phoenix was said to be 972. This is very interesting. https://www.maicar.com/GML/PhoenixTheBird.html https://www.academia.edu/49299491/Myth_of_the_Phoenix_According_to_Classical_and_Early_Christian_Traditions_by_Van_den_Broek_Roel_B_SIide_Note_THIS_BOOK_IS_VERY_DIFFICULT_TO_FIND_ANYWNERE_ONLINE_OR_ANYWHERE_ELSE_FOR_THAT_MATTER_ The fact that Rawley mentions 1560 is because he is using the OS. 1 Jan 1560 is 1 January 1561 to us. At least that is how the AI explains it to me. 22 Jan 1560 OS should be interpreted as 22 Jan 1561, and that is what we see historians give us. Were you of the impression historians are all in error? As for which date is correct, it is the Jan 22, 1561 that fits with timelines we talk about today. That is to say that we use a constant NS dating which means Francis was 32 in 1593 (because that date in 1593 has the same considerations). Take the example (Wikipedia): "so for example, the execution of Charles I was recorded at the time in Parliament as happening on 30 January 1648 (Old Style).[12] In newer English language texts this date is usually shown as "30 January 1649" (New Style).[13] The corresponding date in the Gregorian calendar is 9 February 1649, the date by which his contemporaries in some parts of continental Europe would have recorded his execution." Gregorian dates would only apply if they were used. Nowhere is ever specified that you start adding days after Lady day. Julian and Gregorian are 10-13 days apart depending on the date in question. What you see to be saying is that Rawley never said Jan 22, 1561. You are saying he is counting the days after Lady day and meant after Lady day. To a historian there is no difference. Jan 22, 1560 OS goes to Jan 22, 1561 NS. This does not imply missing time. It just means older calendars were out of sync with ours. They may have been out of sync by more than 10 days. Anecdotally, when I fed the derived visible planet positions from the Sonnets page I tested to verify a hypothesis (my own) with a hysteresis calculator, the date it returned was Jan 21, 1561. That is arrived to purely by reverse engineering the current placement of the visible planets. This I noted as oddly close to Bacon's 22 Jan. 1561 birth date. So working back from Universal time (essentially NS) that gets us to positions seen in Jan 21, 1561 NS or Jan. 21, 1560 OS. The number is 972 x (a long lived life), so a pretty long cycle of deaths and births. The idea is likely paralleled to the coming of the End Times. For all of Biblical time (starting with the appearance of man) is it assumed the Phoenix is doing its thing, but even that cycle comes to an end. I suggested it may in fact be compared to 3 cycles of zodiac precession. That would make some sense since the Phoenix story is given in threes. That would also make the long lived life equal to about 81 years, which is considerably larger than the expected 45 at this period. Long lived would apply. When I presented that I was considering how someone might have thought of it. It is beyond strange to relay a cycle as a multiple of a precise number by one that is not at all defined precisely. That invited some sort of inquiry by me about whether there is a possible numerological appeal with 972. Edited September 25 by RoyalCraftiness 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light-of-Truth Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 4 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said: The fact that Rawley mentions 1560 is because he is using the OS. 1 Jan 1560 is 1 January 1561 to us. At least that is how the AI explains it to me. 22 Jan 1560 OS should be interpreted as 22 Jan 1561, and that is what we see historians give us. I've been confused since the beginning, and never trust AI, ask me first. LOL But I think we would say 1561 but when Bacon was alive he'd say 1560. On his birthday growing up how many candles did he have on his cake? 4 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said: Anecdotally, when I fed the derived visible planet positions from the Sonnets page I tested to verify a hypothesis (my own) with a hysteresis calculator, the date it returned was Jan 21, 1561. That is arrived to purely by reverse engineering the current placement of the visible planets. This I noted as oddly close to Bacon's 22 Jan. 1561 birth date. So working back from Universal time (essentially NS) that gets us to positions seen in Jan 21, 1561 NS or Jan. 21, 1560 OS. Uh, all of you are too smart for me. LOL 4 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said: The number is 972 x (a long lived life), so a pretty long cycle of deaths and births. The idea is likely paralleled to the coming of the End Times. For all of Biblical time (starting with the appearance of man) is it assumed the Phoenix is doing its thing, but even that cycle comes to an end. I suggested it may in fact be compared to 3 cycles of zodiac precession. That would make some sense since the Phoenix story is given in threes. That would also make the long lived life equal to about 81 years, which is considerably larger than the expected 45 at this period. Long lived would apply. When I presented that I was considering how someone might have thought of it. It is beyond strange to relay a cycle as a multiple of a precise number by one that is not at all defined precisely. That invited some sort of inquiry by me about whether there is a possible numerological appeal with 972. I looked at the Sonnets and there is no Day 972 nor Sonnet 972, but there is a Line 972. https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#Line0972 Their worth the greater beeing woo'd of time, Its not a line or Sonnet I have spent much time in; Line 6 of Sonnet 70, the last line of Day 164 and the first line of day 165. That line when adding up all the letters is 183 Short cipher. Likely an accident or coincidence. Yet the first lines of Sonnet 70 add up to 183 Simple cipher. https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#cipherSonnet070 And we know 183 is a Time/Seal number. ONE EIGHTY THREE is 157 Simple and 365 Kaye cipher. Looking at Sonnet 70, I am seeing the same story again about Bacon's life as told by him. But it is early today and I am supposed to be working my day job to pay my bills! THat thou are blam'd shall not be thy defect, For slanders marke was euer yet the faire, The ornament of beauty is suspect, A Crow that flies in heauens sweetest ayre. So thou be good,slander doth but approue, Their worth the greater beeing woo'd of time, For Canker vice the sweetest buds doth loue, And thou present'st a pure vnstayined prime. Thou hast past by the ambush of young daies, Either not assayld,or victor beeing charg'd, Yet this thy praise cannot be soe thy praise, To tye vp enuy,euermore inlarged, If some suspect of ill maskt not thy show, Then thou alone kingdomes of hearts shouldst owe. It did take me several years to be able to understand the language of the Sonnets. 2 T A A A A A A A A A A A T 157 www.Light-of-Truth.com 287 <-- 1 8 8 1 1 O 1 1 8 8 1 --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allisnum2er Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 4 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said: The fact that Rawley mentions 1560 is because he is using the OS. 1 Jan 1560 is 1 January 1561 to us. At least that is how the AI explains it to me. 22 Jan 1560 OS should be interpreted as 22 Jan 1561, and that is what we see historians give us. Were you of the impression historians are all in error? As for which date is correct, it is the Jan 22, 1561 that fits with timelines we talk about today. That is to say that we use a constant NS dating which means Francis was 32 in 1593 (because that date in 1593 has the same considerations). Objection, your Honor ! 😄 Am I of the impression historians are all in error ? Not at all. I simply trust Historians of the considered period.😊 JOHN STOW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stow https://www.google.fr/books/edition/Annales_or_a_general_Chronicle_of_Englan/PSxDAAAAcAAJ?hl=fr&gbpv=1&dq=annales+or+general+chronicle+of+england&printsec=frontcover Take a look at pages 1025 to 1029. John Stow tells us that : "The 9 of June 1616 Sir Frauncis Bacon knight, was sworne a privie Counseller". Then, "The fourth of March, this year 1616, the Queene feasted the King at her Pallace in the Strand ..." "The 7 of March, the Great Seale of England was delivered to Sir Francis Bacon Knight, the Kings Atturney, and was then made Lord keeper, and within few days after, dyed the Lord Elismer, Lord Chancellor, and the fourth of January following, Sir Francis Bacon Lord Keeper, was made Lord Chancellor." "The Twentieth of March 1616 at Burley on the hill, in Rutland shire, Sir Edward Noell knight and Baronet, was created Lord Noell of Rydlington." "At this time neere Wapping, in the parish of White chappell,was new builded a very faire large Chappell, and a Churchyard to it,which were consecrated the seventh of July 1617 by the Lord Bishop of London." How is it possible ? The answer : the Julian Calendar and the Lady Day. The 24th of March 1616 was followed by the 25th of March 1617. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light-of-Truth Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 30 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said: The 24th of March 1616 was followed by the 25th of March 1617. Sounds like what I am used to hearing. Is this a very important Key? 😉 The 24th of March 1616 was followed by the 25th of March 1617. 2 T A A A A A A A A A A A T 157 www.Light-of-Truth.com 287 <-- 1 8 8 1 1 O 1 1 8 8 1 --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allisnum2er Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 22 minutes ago, Light-of-Truth said: Sounds like what I am used to hearing. Is this a very important Key? 😉 The 24th of March 1616 was followed by the 25th of March 1617. https://archive.org/details/corneliigiselber00plem/page/122/mode/2up?view=theater 😉 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light-of-Truth Posted September 25 Share Posted September 25 Yann! How many page 126 are there?? LOL See for yourself, and they might even be misnumbered from the first one https://archive.org/details/corneliigiselber00plem/page/122/mode/2up?view=theater 2 T A A A A A A A A A A A T 157 www.Light-of-Truth.com 287 <-- 1 8 8 1 1 O 1 1 8 8 1 --> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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