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Baconian/Freemasonic/Rosicrucian Questions and Answers


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Several weeks ago, I considered creating a topic dedicated to esoteric/Baconian questions and their answers. My thinking was that anyone on the forum could post their questions pertaining to Bacon, Shakespeare, and esoteric topics, free for anyone to answer. I decided against it because there is already a whole category for information and help - but now I realize that the one thing this community lacks is a more casual space where anyone can ask anything - and anyone can answer it.

Being a relative novice on esoteric topics, I believe this post is long overdue. Most of you here are miles (literally years!) ahead of me on the esoteric journey, but I wouldn't presume that all of us have reached such high levels of understanding - at least not yet.

Basically, this is a designated place where you (and that means all B'hive members) can post on-topic questions and anyone who cares to can provide answers. 

_______________________________________________________

Now, let me start with a few...

 

Marvin Haines

8/8/2023

1. Boaz and Jachin. Imagine I'm standing in the entrance to the Temple and facing out. Which is right, which is left? I know the Left pillar is considered the "dark pillar" and the Right is considered the "light pillar," but left and right are subjective depending on the direction one is facing. I also know that the Temple faced East, towards the rising sun. But what does "faced" in this context actually mean? 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Marvin Haines said:

Several weeks ago, I considered creating a topic dedicated to esoteric/Baconian questions and their answers. My thinking was that anyone on the forum could post their questions pertaining to Bacon, Shakespeare, and esoteric topics, free for anyone to answer. I decided against it because there is already a whole category for information and help - but now I realize that the one thing this community lacks is a more casual space where anyone can ask anything - and anyone can answer it.

Marvin, if you come up with the Forum Title and a brief description as you would like to see it, I'll create it and anyone may ask (once they become a member) and anyone (members) can answer. We'll put in under the Discussions. It sounds like a great idea and one we would embrace on the B'Hive. 🙂

Information and Help was supposed to be tech support or questions about the forum.

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Only just seen this Marvin.

Here are a few images that may answer your question. 
IMG_4278.jpeg.eedea2ac095e3f50f47ddbae3e7ed47b.jpegIMG_4279.jpeg.b172281d1f01196d276165f041671397.jpegIMG_4276.jpeg.4583a82434f753a94a6624feb6f65b1a.jpeg

IMG_4277.jpeg.a6db12f89053d45d3939582c08b4dacd.jpeg

 

Using the human body, on your Left is Boaz. Right is Jachin (Jakin) but in terms of orientation Boaz is North (dark) Jachin south (light).  The East and West is where there is balance because that’s where the rising equinox sun and setting equinox sun occurs. Hence ‘the Middle way is best’.  So either orientation proposes balance between two opposites, shown by the pillars and whether looking at the human body with its two legs from front or behind, the head (where we connect with ‘God’ through Mind) is always in the middle!

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 "For nothing is born without unity or without the point." amazon.com/dp/B0CLDKDPY8

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On 8/11/2023 at 6:22 AM, Kate said:

Only just seen this Marvin.

Here are a few images that may answer your question. 
IMG_4278.jpeg.eedea2ac095e3f50f47ddbae3e7ed47b.jpegIMG_4279.jpeg.b172281d1f01196d276165f041671397.jpegIMG_4276.jpeg.4583a82434f753a94a6624feb6f65b1a.jpeg

IMG_4277.jpeg.a6db12f89053d45d3939582c08b4dacd.jpeg

 

Using the human body, on your Left is Boaz. Right is Jachin (Jakin) but in terms of orientation Boaz is North (dark) Jachin south (light).  The East and West is where there is balance because that’s where the rising equinox sun and setting equinox sun occurs. Hence ‘the Middle way is best’.  So either orientation proposes balance between two opposites, shown by the pillars and whether looking at the human body with its two legs from front or behind, the head (where we connect with ‘God’ through Mind) is always in the middle!

It is worth considering that both Boaz and Joach/Joachim are Jewish names which have meanings. Boaz has the meaning of "swiftness" or strength". Boaz can therefore be understood in terms of the direction of the predominant wind on the sailor's compass. He will be from the left. Jachin means "God will Establish". You see it portrayed to the East in the position given to Jerusalem with the Templar cross on the early compass depictions.  The same depictions give us North as the Fleur-de-Lys or the lilied top. The threefold depiction of the flower represents the Trinity. The ring at it's base Mary. The Trinity is placed atop the world, above the column that supports the heavens. Below is Sheol where there is the association with Joachim which means "raised by Yaweh".  The early Hebrew religion did not maintain the dead would rise. That is from much later after Hellenistic influence.

MDCyZbJ.jpg

The use of such imagery informs us that this is a Christian invention that is not true to the original Hebrew worldview.  There is in fact an effort being made to Christianize the Jewish stories in Freemasonry. This is part of the same current that Christianized the Kabbalah. It is not worth looking far back into history for the meaning of these things because they only start to be popularized in the middle ages. When the Kabbalah arose in Spain in the 13th century it caused a backlash against the Jews in Europe which resulted in them being evicted from England until 1657.  Notable efforts to reinstate the Jews started in Tudor times as Henry VIII forged ties with the community. Catholics eventually replaced the Jews as object of derision. The KJV will have a lot of Jewish input.

The story related by Josephus goes back to a time when there are no reliable historical records. These were from oral traditions and they are considered to be highly allegorical stories. For most of the stories in the Jewish literature there exists no historical evidence. There's no historical King Solomon. In fact, at the time being spoken of the Jews did not have Kings only chieftans. Hiram is likely from the Egyptian Hrm which is in their way of giving the Greek name Hermes without vowels. Their equivalent to Hermes was Imhotep who was a very real historical figure who is credited with originating stone block architecture in Egypt (the first non mud brick pyramid). He built the Temple for the pharaoh Djoser which is still seen in Saqqara.

spacer.png

North-South can be roughly seen as the path of the Nile. The angles through to the temple sites are the traditional Masonic angles of interest.  The placement of temples was something that was not haphazard. The means to locate them was a form of knowledge that was kept (with the instruments) in the "barque of Amun" in the Temple of Amun. The barque was paraded on holy days (carried around on poles). This seems to be the Ark reference in the Jewish stories.

Heliopolis was Easternmost (The city of the Sun). It is there that Solon travelled to exchange knowledge with the priests (as per Plato). It is a possible that the Maths which involve the Pythagorean theorem reached Greece in such exchanges. Euclid, based in Alexandria, will later give us what the Europeans got so enamored with later (His propositions). Heliopolis and Alexandria are on the Great circle that appears to have mattered to Bacon.

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6 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

The story related by Josephus goes back to a time when there are no reliable historical records. These were from oral traditions and they are considered to be highly allegorical stories.

Fascinating information. Our history is so important and interesting! Symbols carry the meaning without words. Even beyond what we have records of, all the Mammoth hunters, and before them. I have mediated on 10,000 year old paleo spear-points I have found on the ground, learning what I can from who they were just by holding their tools and artwork.

They were just like us but at a different time. They may not have the words we use to limit our experiences, but the sensations were the same as ours no matter how we describe it to ourselves.

Joseph Campbell is one of my teachers (by his books and on Radio/TV). I was trying to come up with some thoughts, and AI helped.

These teachings often emphasize hidden or inner dimensions of reality, personal transformation, and a connection to higher truths. When considering Joseph Campbell's concept of "The Power of Myth," a fascinating connection emerges. Campbell's exploration of mythological narratives across cultures reveals universal themes and archetypes that echo the transformative journey found within Western Esoteric traditions. Both concepts highlight the pursuit of a deeper understanding of self and the cosmos, drawing seekers into realms beyond the mundane. Campbell's emphasis on the hero's journey, symbolic motifs, and the integration of the conscious and unconscious mirrors the themes often present in Western Esotericism. The Power of Myth thus serves as a bridge between cultural mythologies and the inner quests of Esoteric seekers, illustrating the profound and timeless resonance of these narratives in the human psyche.

 

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6 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

It is worth considering that both Boaz and Joach/Joachim are Jewish names which have meanings. Boaz has the meaning of "swiftness" or strength". Boaz can therefore be understood in terms of the direction of the predominant wind on the sailor's compass. He will be from the left. Jachin means "God will Establish". You see it portrayed to the East in the position given to Jerusalem with the Templar cross on the early compass depictions.  The same depictions give us North as the Fleur-de-Lys or the lilied top. The threefold depiction of the flower represents the Trinity. The ring at it's base Mary. The Trinity is placed atop the world, above the column that supports the heavens. Below is Sheol where there is the association with Joachim which means "raised by Yaweh".  The early Hebrew religion did not maintain the dead would rise. That is from much later after Hellenistic influence.

MDCyZbJ.jpg

The use of such imagery informs us that this is a Christian invention that is not true to the original Hebrew worldview.  There is in fact an effort being made to Christianize the Jewish stories in Freemasonry. This is part of the same current that Christianized the Kabbalah. It is not worth looking far back into history for the meaning of these things because they only start to be popularized in the middle ages. When the Kabbalah arose in Spain in the 13th century it caused a backlash against the Jews in Europe which resulted in them being evicted from England until 1657.  Notable efforts to reinstate the Jews started in Tudor times as Henry VIII forged ties with the community. Catholics eventually replaced the Jews as object of derision. The KJV will have a lot of Jewish input.

The story related by Josephus goes back to a time when there are no reliable historical records. These were from oral traditions and they are considered to be highly allegorical stories. For most of the stories in the Jewish literature there exists no historical evidence. There's no historical King Solomon. In fact, at the time being spoken of the Jews did not have Kings only chieftans. Hiram is likely from the Egyptian Hrm which is in their way of giving the Greek name Hermes without vowels. Their equivalent to Hermes was Imhotep who was a very real historical figure who is credited with originating stone block architecture in Egypt (the first non mud brick pyramid). He built the Temple for the pharaoh Djoser which is still seen in Saqqara.

spacer.png

North-South can be roughly seen as the path of the Nile. The angles through to the temple sites are the traditional Masonic angles of interest.  The placement of temples was something that was not haphazard. The means to locate them was a form of knowledge that was kept (with the instruments) in the "barque of Amun" in the Temple of Amun. The barque was paraded on holy days (carried around on poles). This seems to be the Ark reference in the Jewish stories.

Heliopolis was Easternmost (The city of the Sun). It is there that Solon travelled to exchange knowledge with the priests (as per Plato). It is a possible that the Maths which involve the Pythagorean theorem reached Greece in such exchanges. Euclid, based in Alexandria, will later give us what the Europeans got so enamored with later (His propositions). Heliopolis and Alexandria are on the Great circle that appears to have mattered to Bacon.

Hey, RC!

This is fascinating! I've always suspected that the Temple of Solomon never really existed - rather, that it is simply a metaphor for various esoteric concepts. The Masonic "Trinity" of Hiram Abiff, Hiram of Tyre, and Solomon - i.e., Strength, Wisdom, Beauty/Doric, Ionic, Corinthian, etc. is also a metaphor/allegory. What I find interesting is that the "First Temple" is only mentioned twice in the Bible, once by Josephus, and nowhere else. There's no archeological evidence for it, and even its location is speculated.

Thanks for the info! It's much appreciated!

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44 minutes ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Fascinating information. Our history is so important and interesting! Symbols carry the meaning without words. Even beyond what we have records of, all the Mammoth hunters, and before them. I have mediated on 10,000 year old paleo spear-points I have found on the ground, learning what I can from who they were just by holding their tools and artwork.

They were just like us but at a different time. They may not have the words we use to limit our experiences, but the sensations were the same as ours no matter how we describe it to ourselves.

Joseph Campbell is one of my teachers (by his books and on Radio/TV). I was trying to come up with some thoughts, and AI helped.

These teachings often emphasize hidden or inner dimensions of reality, personal transformation, and a connection to higher truths. When considering Joseph Campbell's concept of "The Power of Myth," a fascinating connection emerges. Campbell's exploration of mythological narratives across cultures reveals universal themes and archetypes that echo the transformative journey found within Western Esoteric traditions. Both concepts highlight the pursuit of a deeper understanding of self and the cosmos, drawing seekers into realms beyond the mundane. Campbell's emphasis on the hero's journey, symbolic motifs, and the integration of the conscious and unconscious mirrors the themes often present in Western Esotericism. The Power of Myth thus serves as a bridge between cultural mythologies and the inner quests of Esoteric seekers, illustrating the profound and timeless resonance of these narratives in the human psyche.

 

Love listening to Joseph Campbell...He had his opponents, but I think he is right about the power of myth. 

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28 minutes ago, Marvin Haines said:

Hey, RC!

This is fascinating! I've always suspected that the Temple of Solomon never really existed - rather, that it is simply a metaphor for various esoteric concepts. The Masonic "Trinity" of Hiram Abiff, Hiram of Tyre, and Solomon - i.e., Strength, Wisdom, Beauty/Doric, Ionic, Corinthian, etc. is also a metaphor/allegory. What I find interesting is that the "First Temple" is only mentioned twice in the Bible, once by Josephus, and nowhere else. There's no archeological evidence for it, and even its location is speculated.

Thanks for the info! It's much appreciated!

It's not important to the stories that they are not factual. The stories are typically relaying an important "teaching" which is often seen across cultures the further back you go.  Solomon is phonetically very similar to Sol-Amun. Temples to Sol/Amun did in fact exist, and the most Eastern of the Egyptian ones was said to be located at Jerusalem. It would have dated to the time of the pharaoh Thutmose III who was considered one of the wisest and greatest pharaohs. He had control of the Nubian Gold mines that flooded Egypt in gold wealth. In many ways he seems to fit the attributes of King Solomon. For what it's worth, Josephus describes "his people" as being the Hyksos people of Egypt. The exodus of the Hyksos to the land of Canaan isn't believed to have been as dramatic as the Jewish stories make it out to be. Nevertheless there are obvious similarities in the stories which may be the hallmark of influence. Same thing can be said about the Moses character for who there exists similar cross cultural similarities and not a shred of evidence for his existence outside of an oral tradition that goes back to Egypt.

Thutmose III reigned in the 18th dynasty. The number of pharaonic dynasties numbers 32 or 33, depending on who you reference. I have always found it quite intriguing that the mid 19th century Masonic involvement at Oak Island repped the Enochian myth on in island divided in 32 lots where the Enochian vault was suggestively placed on lot 18. No one should have any great confidence in any of the Freemasonic storytelling. They are in a style that is exactly the same as the earliest writings we have, suggesting that someone may have understood exactly how to craft a later allegorical story to make it look as if it belonged to a much earlier time. No one can reasonably account for an the origin of speculative Freemasonry. It would appear to be inspired by operative Freemasonry which is also characterized with fanciful lineage sand origin stories.

Rpsicrucianism has a similar mythological influence.

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7 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Temples to Sol/Amun did in fact exist, and the most Eastern of the Egyptian ones was said to be located at Jerusalem. It would have dated to the time of the pharaoh Thutmose III who was considered one of the wisest and greatest pharaohs. He had control of the Nubian Gold mines that flooded Egypt in gold wealth. In many ways he seems to fit the attributes of King Solomon.

Synchronicity is always fun for me. I was just thinking about this page number III and read your reply:

image.png.ed988ebf94c2010ace5a19258a79922f.png

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14 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Synchronicity is always fun for me. I was just thinking about this page number III and read your reply:

image.png.ed988ebf94c2010ace5a19258a79922f.png

You could in fact think of that III as 111 and vice versa. The trinity of Thutmoses starts with Thutmose I who is in fact the one who chased the Hyksos out of Egypt. The 18th dynasty is the one in which monotheism had a start with Akhenaten (10th pharaoh of that dynasty). That's how easy it is to bind stories together via similarities. It's the very thing that got Joseph Campbell in trouble. One never really knows how far to go with it.

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On 8/11/2023 at 6:22 AM, Kate said:

Only just seen this Marvin.

Here are a few images that may answer your question. 
IMG_4278.jpeg.eedea2ac095e3f50f47ddbae3e7ed47b.jpegIMG_4279.jpeg.b172281d1f01196d276165f041671397.jpegIMG_4276.jpeg.4583a82434f753a94a6624feb6f65b1a.jpeg

IMG_4277.jpeg.a6db12f89053d45d3939582c08b4dacd.jpeg

 

Using the human body, on your Left is Boaz. Right is Jachin (Jakin) but in terms of orientation Boaz is North (dark) Jachin south (light).  The East and West is where there is balance because that’s where the rising equinox sun and setting equinox sun occurs. Hence ‘the Middle way is best’.  So either orientation proposes balance between two opposites, shown by the pillars and whether looking at the human body with its two legs from front or behind, the head (where we connect with ‘God’ through Mind) is always in the middle!

spacer.png

In the left hand image you can see that if you are looking outside the Temple (the temple floor is in the foreground) J and B have the orientation shown. If you are looking inside the Temple B is to the left (West). J is in the East and it is given the pillar with the Sun (the great Oriental Star). The moon is given the opposite position (occidental). There are roses growing on both columns here. There's a change of worldview in the two images here. The image to the right is Christianized and it is involving Jewish ideas of God too. In Bacon's thinking the rose is at the intersection of the cross and it represents God's limitless love and his plan for you. Things may seem to look alike at first glance, but they are often crucially different. In many ways Bacon was rejecting the image to the left, but not so much as to give up the symbols. A similar thing happened with Maths were the pure form of mathematics was equated by Bacon to metaphysics (the old theology of number) and of little use to the advancement of learning. He favored the applied mathematics which he saw as lesser but more informative form (using maths to derive empirical knowledge about natural relationships).

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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6 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

This is in reference to an opera isn't it? is it Jacques Offenbach's 1860 work, "A Trip to the Moon", which failed to mention it is based on the work of "Jules Vernes"

That's a good guess, but I actually wrote it! Was playing around with words and cyphers yesterday, and this is what I came up with. If anyone else wants to have a go at solving the encryption, I'd love to see what you can produce. Otherwise, I'll post the answer.

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15 minutes ago, Marvin Haines said:

That's a good guess, but I actually wrote it! Was playing around with words and cyphers yesterday, and this is what I came up with. If anyone else wants to have a go at solving the encryption, I'd love to see what you can produce. Otherwise, I'll post the answer.

I see I am not the only one who has learned from the Mighty Yann! 🙂

Thanks for the William Tudor!

Don't give up the solution, this is a great exercise for years to come. When I started learning to solve ciphers, creating ciphers was one of my best teachers. Applying them in day-to-day life adds to the learning. 😉

 

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Yeah, thanks!

I've spent some time working numerical cyphers into writing, but this is my first try at something geometrical. I won't lie and say that it was easy - I suppose I'll get better with time. 🙂 

By the way, can you elaborate on exactly what you wanted from me with regard to creating a new topic?

Thanks, Rob!

M.

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20 hours ago, Marvin Haines said:

image.png.87597871b8991f243425f5fb737e8c10.png

You avoided using the word "ever" which would have caused to stir up the De Vere proponents. Disaster averted.

You have 61 words there which once can equate with the fact Bacon was born in '61.  Either that or you must have meant that 61 is to be paired with it's mirror, 16. 61 + 16 =77, which is the number of Bacon's alleged famous Rosicrucian argument (out of 100). The 40th word is "songs", which was useful to send us to the psalms, the Sonnets and the Song of Solomon. There are the requisite three Ts to the left which surely tells us to mind the Triple Tau. Come to think of it I see "Freemason" too. With the use of of "concise and worthy men" "over "biased" one could tease out "Anthony Bacon's word". And that is surely just the beginning...You probably never intended any of that, but I point it out because there are ways to make any text say what we want, if we want.

In my own study of what some people have produced to involve "Bacon" I have noticed that what is most signaled are words in proximity which use the prefix "con" (as you do) and words that use the prefix "ab". Both make the top 20 of the 100 most common prefixes found in English. It is therefore highly likely that if one wrote a very long book in English that one would inadvertently create a few "Bacon" suggestion in the process.  

I suggested Offenbach by wanting to employ "o" "n" and "bac" and the idea that an opera was possibly suggested. When I looked into it I noticed that one of his operas caused a stir for not mentioning its obvious links to the Jules Vernes work. The work also involves a group of concise men getting onto a ship to to go to the moon. The fiery crux seems to work for the ship's flaming propulsion.  To go tot he moon is to go West, precisely as Bacon had done. It works so well that I am going to propose that you are in fact hiding your true intentions and that I have discovered a truth that you were not even aware you were relaying to us. The Lard works in mysterious ways!

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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On 8/13/2023 at 9:27 PM, Marvin Haines said:

image.png.87597871b8991f243425f5fb737e8c10.png

WOW ! 😮 Great work Marvin !

For our friends of the B'Hive which would not have noticed it yet ...

image.png.96812a9f3617a4b7a8130b77bb822c24.png

FRANCIS BACON IS WILLIAM TUDOR - FREEMASONRY - ROSICRUCIANISM

... a beautiful way to conceal  the number 33 !

I  noticed that "am" in "I am" is the 33rd word : I AM BACON.

The number of words of the odd lines is also 33.

And talking about the number 61,  I would guessed that having read the different topics of the B'Hive,

you may choose this number because 61 is the simple cipher of the two-headed JANUS.

And this is probably a coincidence, but I like the fact that "un/seen" are (if I am right) the 33rd and 34th syllables.

33 = BACON 33+34=67=FRANCIS       "FRANCIS BACON" UNSEEN

Once again BRAVO.

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image.png.b8c74f56d5551c745119c268cf9d3db8.png

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1 hour ago, Allisnum2er said:

WOW ! 😮 Great work Marvin !

For our friends of the B'Hive which would not have noticed it yet ...

image.png.96812a9f3617a4b7a8130b77bb822c24.png

FRANCIS BACON IS WILLIAM TUDOR - FREEMASONRY - ROSICRUCIANISM

... a beautiful way to conceal  the number 33 !

I  noticed that "am" in "I am" is the 33rd word : I AM BACON.

The number of words of the odd lines is also 33.

And talking about the number 61,  I would guessed that having read the different topics of the B'Hive,

you may choose this number because 61 is the simple cipher of the two-headed JANUS.

And this is probably a coincidence, but I like the fact that "un/seen" are (if I am right) the 33rd and 34th syllables.

33 = BACON 33+34=67=FRANCIS       "FRANCIS BACON" UNSEEN

Once again BRAVO.

Yann! BRAVO! So thrilled to see you solved it!

I had it almost figured out but was lost of the "ism" I could not place. What is "ism"? I definitely followed "ROSICRUCIAN", but a high wall of blindness kept "ISM" separate. You nailed it!

"ROSICRUCIAN-ISM"

LOL How could I miss it!

Marvin and Yann, I am honored to be in the company of Cipher Masters!

🙂

 

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