An underestimated cipher? — The numerical cipher of the Bavarian Illuminati

[Light-of-Truth]

8 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Happy Saint-Jean-Baptiste day, btw (John the Baptist is the earliest patron Saint of Freemasons, something Herge employed in his take on the story). If Bacon has any link to Freemasonry one ought to see him using it somehow in his effort to signal connections. It's the 175th day of the year.  In my own researching of ideas about this I have noticed that the use of the 175th anniversary of certain events related to early Freemasonry in Nova Scotia were signaled with monuments.

Thank you for reminding me of it being Day 175. This has been a busy week and I haven't done my typical wake up to see where we are in the Sonnets. Some years when I am busy I miss out. Last year I posted a very long post on June 19th and mentioned the Line where Day 173 ends and 174 begins in the line, "My life hath in this line some interest".

CJ, of all people to trigger me on a synchronicity, the same guy who dismisses all my coincidence magic as a "Belief in my mind". Not that I disagree, I just believe we do not see that Truth from the same base of reality. LOL

I need to share a cool coincidence that has been in my brain since the early days of my discovering the Sonnets patterns.

ONE SEVENTY FIVE is 175 Simple and 175 Reverse cipher.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/ciphers.html

I do not remember any other number where its Simple and Reverse cipher match three ways.

There is only one Sonnet where the first 14 letters have the same Simple and Reverse cipher is Sonnet 141. Sure enough the numbers are 175.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#cipherSonnet141

Sonnet 141 begins with Line 1960 which is the year I was born. Of course Francis Bacon and Ben Jonson planned that I would be born in 1960, lead a wild and crazy first 36 years and meet Lawrence Gerald the Baconian Lighthouse for lost Ships at sea. 🙂

I discovered number 175 curiosities in the very first days after 9-11-2001. Remember Flight 175?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_175

United Airlines Flight 175 was a domestic passenger flight from Logan International Airport in Massachusetts to Los Angeles International Airport in California that was hijacked by five al-Qaeda terrorists on the morning of September 11, 2001, as part of the September 11 attacks. The aircraft involved, a Boeing 767-200 carrying 65 passengers and crew, was deliberately crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City, killing everyone aboard and causing the deaths of more than 600^[b] people in the South Tower's upper levels in addition to an unknown number of civilians and emergency personnel on floors beneath the impact zone. Flight 175's hijacking not only led to it being the second-deadliest of the four suicide attacks carried out on the day in terms of plane and ground fatalities, but also secured its place as second-deadliest plane crash in aviation history, surpassed only by American Airlines Flight 11.

CJ, I've mentioned that it was on 9-11-2001 when I first discovered the 14x26 Pyramid. I spent a few hours with a Freemason as we were in some kind of shock on what was happening. I within the first hour I saw 157 and 287. It was a day that was destined for over 400 years. SEPTEMBER ELEVEN is 157 Simple and TWO THOUSAND ONE is 287 Kaye cipher. What a coincidence, the only day in 400 years where that happens.

So after the number 175 jumped up and into my face, it turned out over the next years that it was "74" that seemed to be connected to everything. 74, 174, 274 at least. I haven't looked further, but those three are woven together intricately, like a fractal pattern. I would not be surprised to learn that Master Mathematicians know why that happens, and it is not magic, just pure math. 😉

Day 274 begins at 12 AM on October 1st (non-Leap Year years). It perfectly begins the final quarter of the Sonnets in Sonnet 116 which was mis-numbered 119 in the original. We have talked about it here on the B'Hive before on multiple threads.

8 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

In my own researching of ideas about this I have noticed that the use of the 175th anniversary of certain events related to early Freemasonry in Nova Scotia were signaled with monuments. In fact the a very prominent monument in Halifax relates to the death/ascension of the founder of the first Masonic Lodge in Canada, Erasmus James Philips. It has been my contention that the suggestions that bubble up at Oak Island, NS, have found a basis in the story telling of the men of his 40th Regiment of foot who instituted what is now called King Solomon Lodge 54 in NS. There's a curious meeting up of influences that occur in NS that will also involve Bacon in the wild story telling. Sorting out the fact from fiction is a big part of the puzzle.

Are you willing to elaborate more?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Light-of-Truth]

8 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

In my own researching of ideas about this I have noticed that the use of the 175th anniversary of certain events related to early Freemasonry...

A very interesting mention on a website about June 24 in 1374 where something happened and people started dancing crazy and could not stop. It spread from town to town. People even died from heart attacks, being over-heated, or pure exhaustion. They obviously did not have cold bottles of water on hand. I am sure ergot was involved.

https://www.onthisday.com/articles/the-fatal-dance-manias-of-medieval-europe

Well, let me tell you that same dancing mania happened again and it started in the 1960s and continues today. It is a crazy disease that does not go away! I am a victim myself, and after I finish typing this reply might dance in my backyard naked for a while with a beer in hand! 😉

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

2 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Thank you for reminding me of it being Day 175. This has been a busy week and I haven't done my typical wake up to see where we are in the Sonnets. Some years when I am busy I miss out. Last year I posted a very long post on June 19th and mentioned the Line where Day 173 ends and 174 begins in the line, "My life hath in this line some interest".

CJ, of all people to trigger me on a synchronicity, the same guy who dismisses all my coincidence magic as a "Belief in my mind". Not that I disagree, I just believe we do not see that Truth from the same base of reality. LOL

I need to share a cool coincidence that has been in my brain since the early days of my discovering the Sonnets patterns.

ONE SEVENTY FIVE is 175 Simple and 175 Reverse cipher.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/ciphers.html

I do not remember any other number where its Simple and Reverse cipher match three ways.

There is only one Sonnet where the first 14 letters have the same Simple and Reverse cipher is Sonnet 141. Sure enough the numbers are 175.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#cipherSonnet141

Sonnet 141 begins with Line 1960 which is the year I was born. Of course Francis Bacon and Ben Jonson planned that I would be born in 1960, lead a wild and crazy first 36 years and meet Lawrence Gerald the Baconian Lighthouse for lost Ships at sea. 🙂

I discovered number 175 curiosities in the very first days after 9-11-2001. Remember Flight 175?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_175

United Airlines Flight 175 was a domestic passenger flight from Logan International Airport in Massachusetts to Los Angeles International Airport in California that was hijacked by five al-Qaeda terrorists on the morning of September 11, 2001, as part of the September 11 attacks. The aircraft involved, a Boeing 767-200 carrying 65 passengers and crew, was deliberately crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City, killing everyone aboard and causing the deaths of more than 600^[b] people in the South Tower's upper levels in addition to an unknown number of civilians and emergency personnel on floors beneath the impact zone. Flight 175's hijacking not only led to it being the second-deadliest of the four suicide attacks carried out on the day in terms of plane and ground fatalities, but also secured its place as second-deadliest plane crash in aviation history, surpassed only by American Airlines Flight 11.

CJ, I've mentioned that it was on 9-11-2001 when I first discovered the 14x26 Pyramid. I spent a few hours with a Freemason as we were in some kind of shock on what was happening. I within the first hour I saw 157 and 287. It was a day that was destined for over 400 years. SEPTEMBER ELEVEN is 157 Simple and TWO THOUSAND ONE is 287 Kaye cipher. What a coincidence, the only day in 400 years where that happens.

So after the number 175 jumped up and into my face, it turned out over the next years that it was "74" that seemed to be connected to everything. 74, 174, 274 at least. I haven't looked further, but those three are woven together intricately, like a fractal pattern. I would not be surprised to learn that Master Mathematicians know why that happens, and it is not magic, just pure math. 😉

Day 274 begins at 12 AM on October 1st (non-Leap Year years). It perfectly begins the final quarter of the Sonnets in Sonnet 116 which was mis-numbered 119 in the original. We have talked about it here on the B'Hive before on multiple threads.

Are you willing to elaborate more?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sure, I'll send you a PM later this week. The creation of the first NS lodge is given a creation date of June 24, 1738. I believe you will also see that the 1717 creation of the Grand Lodge is said to date to June 24 of that year.

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

3 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Thank you for reminding me of it being Day 175. This has been a busy week and I haven't done my typical wake up to see where we are in the Sonnets. Some years when I am busy I miss out. Last year I posted a very long post on June 19th and mentioned the Line where Day 173 ends and 174 begins in the line, "My life hath in this line some interest".

CJ, of all people to trigger me on a synchronicity, the same guy who dismisses all my coincidence magic as a "Belief in my mind". Not that I disagree, I just believe we do not see that Truth from the same base of reality. LOL

I need to share a cool coincidence that has been in my brain since the early days of my discovering the Sonnets patterns.

ONE SEVENTY FIVE is 175 Simple and 175 Reverse cipher.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/ciphers.html

I do not remember any other number where its Simple and Reverse cipher match three ways.

There is only one Sonnet where the first 14 letters have the same Simple and Reverse cipher is Sonnet 141. Sure enough the numbers are 175.

https://www.light-of-truth.com/pyramid-GMT.php#cipherSonnet141

Sonnet 141 begins with Line 1960 which is the year I was born. Of course Francis Bacon and Ben Jonson planned that I would be born in 1960, lead a wild and crazy first 36 years and meet Lawrence Gerald the Baconian Lighthouse for lost Ships at sea. 🙂

I discovered number 175 curiosities in the very first days after 9-11-2001. Remember Flight 175?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_175

United Airlines Flight 175 was a domestic passenger flight from Logan International Airport in Massachusetts to Los Angeles International Airport in California that was hijacked by five al-Qaeda terrorists on the morning of September 11, 2001, as part of the September 11 attacks. The aircraft involved, a Boeing 767-200 carrying 65 passengers and crew, was deliberately crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City, killing everyone aboard and causing the deaths of more than 600^[b] people in the South Tower's upper levels in addition to an unknown number of civilians and emergency personnel on floors beneath the impact zone. Flight 175's hijacking not only led to it being the second-deadliest of the four suicide attacks carried out on the day in terms of plane and ground fatalities, but also secured its place as second-deadliest plane crash in aviation history, surpassed only by American Airlines Flight 11.

CJ, I've mentioned that it was on 9-11-2001 when I first discovered the 14x26 Pyramid. I spent a few hours with a Freemason as we were in some kind of shock on what was happening. I within the first hour I saw 157 and 287. It was a day that was destined for over 400 years. SEPTEMBER ELEVEN is 157 Simple and TWO THOUSAND ONE is 287 Kaye cipher. What a coincidence, the only day in 400 years where that happens.

So after the number 175 jumped up and into my face, it turned out over the next years that it was "74" that seemed to be connected to everything. 74, 174, 274 at least. I haven't looked further, but those three are woven together intricately, like a fractal pattern. I would not be surprised to learn that Master Mathematicians know why that happens, and it is not magic, just pure math. 😉

Day 274 begins at 12 AM on October 1st (non-Leap Year years). It perfectly begins the final quarter of the Sonnets in Sonnet 116 which was mis-numbered 119 in the original. We have talked about it here on the B'Hive before on multiple threads.

Are you willing to elaborate more?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The original 9/11 was in 1973. You were 13 when the US backed coup led by Augusto Pinochet was launched. The country, Chile, remained a brutal US backed dictatorship for 17 years.

Edited June 25 by RoyalCraftiness

[Light-of-Truth]

8 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Sure, I'll send you a PM later this week. The creation of the first NS lodge is given a creation date of June 24, 1738. I believe you will also see that the 1717 creation of the Grand Lodge is said to date to June 24 of that year.

 

Day 175.

June 24, 1717 was 175 years after Saint John of the Cross was born. 😉

https://www.mapsofworld.com/on-this-day/june-24-1542-ce-saint-john-of-the-cross-is-born-in-fontiveros-spain/

[RoyalCraftiness]

3 minutes ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Day 175.

June 24, 1717 was 175 years after Saint John of the Cross was born. 😉

https://www.mapsofworld.com/on-this-day/june-24-1542-ce-saint-john-of-the-cross-is-born-in-fontiveros-spain/

If you read the history of Freemasonry you will see that different Saint Johns served as Patrons in different times. Churches built by Freemasons are often dedicated to Saint Paul, the carrier of the Tau symbol. In early Halifax the first Masonic lodge served as a church that was named for Saint Paul. in 1666 old Saint Paul burned in London and it was rebuilt by Christopher Wren who is believed to be an early Freemason by some.

[RoyalCraftiness]

17 minutes ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Day 175.

June 24, 1717 was 175 years after Saint John of the Cross was born. 😉

https://www.mapsofworld.com/on-this-day/june-24-1542-ce-saint-john-of-the-cross-is-born-in-fontiveros-spain/

You should probably look into the ancient Roman festival of Fors Fortuna which is associated with this day. What was celebrated here was Midsummer day This has obvious relevance to a Shakespearean work that might want to be scrutinized for any other possible Masonic suggestion. The tradition was to get inebriated on this day. The cult of Fortuna was closely related to the virtue of Virtus (strength of Character).

[Light-of-Truth]

20 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

You should probably look into the ancient Roman festival of Fors Fortuna which is associated with this day. What was celebrated here was Midsummer day This has obvious relevance to a Shakespearean work that might want to be scrutinized for any other possible Masonic suggestion. The tradition was to get inebriated on this day. The cult of Fortuna was closely related to the virtue of Virtus (strength of Character).

I see!

https://neptunesdolphins.wordpress.com/2020/06/17/fors-fortuna-roman-goddess-of-luck/

The Festival for Fors Fortuna is on June 24. Ovid writes that this festival was a rowdy affair. Romans would decorate boats with flowers, and then race to her temple. They would gamble and get falling down drunk. Today people can celebrate in similar ways with boat races, betting, and drinking.

A Modern Prayer to Fors Fortuna

Salve Fors Fortuna!
Goddess of Good Luck
Goddess of Gamblers who bless their craps
In Your Name
Goddess of Poor People who bless their lottery tickets
In Your Name

You raise them from rags to riches
Roll the die in Your Name
Place the bets in Your Name
Bless our piety
In Your Name
Grant us good luck
Salve Fors Fortuna!

My wife is like, "Why you being so goofy?" I now can say, "Today is the Festival for Fors Fortuna!"

🙂

To make fun of myself, see that SALVE FORS FORTUNA is 200 Simple and Reverse. Note the 74 Short cipher below:

Day 175 begins and is mostly in Sonnet 74 where the 11 Letter Simple and Kaye ciphers are both 200.

There is something about today, Day 175.

I'm not even getting into the synchronicities in my not-Bacon world. LOL

Wow! Just saw this!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nativity_of_John_the_Baptist

Therefore, a more likely reason why the festival falls on June 24 lies in the Roman way of counting, which proceeded backward from the Kalends (first day) of the succeeding month. Christmas was "the eighth day before the Kalends of January" (Octavo Kalendas Januarii). Consequently, Saint John's Nativity was put on the "eighth day before the Kalends of July."

Day 175 plus 8 days is Day 183, the middle day of the year with 182 Days before and 182 Days after.

ONE EIGHTY TWO is 157 Simple and 287 Kaye ciphers.

ONE EIGHTY THREE is 157 Simple and 365 Kaye ciphers.

I just have no clue what "Kalends of July" means and I need to get to sleep, even in a Dance Festival. 🙂

 

[Light-of-Truth]

56 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

The original 9/11 was in 1973.

The Twin Towers, the World Trade Center opened on Day 94 of 1973, April 4.

FOURTH OF APRIL is 157 Simple cipher and 287 Kaye cipher. Coincidence it was destroyed with a 157 and 287 date in 2001. 

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

"A Midsummer Night's Dream" concerns the manipulation of humans by a higher order of beings named fairies. I see a parallel here with the m.o. of the Freemasonic story tellers. There is a relevant character called Robin "puck" Goodfellow who is a mischievous prankster who loves nothing more than to play tricks on people. Examine him and the character of Francis Flute and consider that name in relation to the content of experiment 222 in SS.  Francis Flute is a "bellows mender" in this play. The bellows here are the ones that power the church organ's flutes. But, he may also be blowing air up someone's behind, so to speak. His profession starts with a B as does that of all the characters in Lewis Carroll's "The Hunting of the Snark", safe one who is given his in a way that is unique yet similar-- a "maker of bonnets" (MB vs BM).  In fact, we've already discovered that the Bellman (another BM suggestion which we can relate to Bacon's ringing of the golden bell description in exp. 222) was the man of great ability and intellect in LC's story. He was guiding our misfits on their nonsense journey to a far off island with his non-existent stellar based nautical chart.

The theme was replayed again later by Herge in his globe trotting island locating journey to discover that St John the evangelist and the cross solve the mystery of the lost inheritance (of mankind) which we will call the stand-in for "The Treasure" promised to the man who wears the Tau symbol in life. The Snark, in my humble opinion is a foolish hidden reference to the NS-ark which ought to be known by us as being attached to that ridiculous suggestion of the discovery of the fabled shaft that promises to contain the sunken vault that houses the ark (attainable only in the End Times which the discovery of the flat polished stone will be an omen of). Carrol was enough of a follower of Haliburton to know about these wild suggestions. As a fan of Haliburton he would have encountered the Masonic treasure suggestion in TCH's "The Old Judge". That was making efforts to echo the popular Lord Anson "mystery" suggestions which tied it to the ark being hidden in some New World remote island location. Herge is certainly a bit different. He tried to write himself into this story in order to strengthen the suggestion that he was in fact not who people assumed he was (a lost blood relative of the British monarchs).

It is in the consideration of the fact that Francis might have been a very clever Hermes-type prankster that we may discover exactly why we are encountering efforts to lead people to strange conclusions in rather unscientific ways. Was Francis an early Freemason responsible for the crafting of some fable-like origin stories? Some say that. Some say that he is that and the originator of the Rosicrucian myths also. I don't see those things as possibly overlapping. They are too dissimilar. Still, they both involve the spinning of a yarn to get humans to "see the light".

[Kate]

2 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

"A Midsummer Night's Dream" concerns the manipulation of humans by a higher order of beings named fairies. I see a parallel here with the m.o. of the Freemasonic story tellers. There is a relevant character called Robin "puck" Goodfellow who is a mischievous prankster who loves nothing more than to play tricks on people. Examine him and the character of Francis Flute and consider that name in relation to the content of experiment 222 in SS.  Francis Flute is a "bellows mender" in this play. The bellows here are the ones that power the church organ's flutes. But, he may also be blowing air up someone's behind, so to speak. His profession starts with a B as does that of all the characters in Lewis Carroll's "The Hunting of the Snark", safe one who is given his in a way that is unique yet similar-- a "maker of bonnets" (MB vs BM).  In fact, we've already discovered that the Bellman (another BM suggestion which we can relate to Bacon's ringing of the golden bell description in exp. 222) was the man of great ability and intellect in LC's story. He was guiding our misfits on their nonsense journey to a far off island with his non-existent stellar based nautical chart.

The theme was replayed again later by Herge in his globe trotting island locating journey to discover that St John the evangelist and the cross solve the mystery of the lost inheritance (of mankind) which we will call the stand-in for "The Treasure" promised to the man who wears the Tau symbol in life. The Snark, in my humble opinion is a foolish hidden reference to the NS-ark which ought to be known by us that houses the ark (attainable only in the End Times which the discovery of the flat polished stone will be an omen of)as being attached to that ridiculous suggestion of the discovery of the fabled shaft that promises to contain the sunken vault . Carrol was enough of a follower of Haliburton to know about these wild suggestions. As a fan of Haliburton he would have encountered the Masonic treasure suggestion in TCH's "The Old Judge". That was making efforts to echo the popular Lord Anson "mystery" suggestions which tied it to the ark being hidden in some New World remote island location. Herge is certainly a bit different. He tried to write himself into this story in order to strengthen the suggestion that he was in fact not who people assumed he was (a lost blood relative of the British monarchs).

It is in the consideration of the fact that Francis might have been a very clever Hermes-type prankster that we may discover exactly why we are encountering efforts to lead people to strange conclusions in rather unscientific ways. Was Francis an early Freemason responsible for the crafting of some fable-like origin stories? Some say that. Some say that he is that and the originator of the Rosicrucian myths also. I don't see those things as possibly overlapping. They are too dissimilar. Still, they both involve the spinning of a yarn to get humans to "see the light".

There's the 222 again!

Are you referring to the Oak Island mystery here? "guiding our misfits on their nonsense journey to a far off island with his non-existent stellar based nautical chart." and "as being attached to that ridiculous suggestion of the discovery of the fabled shaft that promises to contain the sunken vault".

I've always thought the Oak Island mystery is a Masonic teaching fable that people have taken literally and may be linked to the Hiram Abiff story of burying and then raising.  3 men, 33 feet, shafts, trees, treasure, it's all allegory and metaphors.

[RoyalCraftiness]

4 hours ago, Kate said:

There's the 222 again!

Are you referring to the Oak Island mystery here? "guiding our misfits on their nonsense journey to a far off island with his non-existent stellar based nautical chart." and "as being attached to that ridiculous suggestion of the discovery of the fabled shaft that promises to contain the sunken vault".

I've always thought the Oak Island mystery is a Masonic teaching fable that people have taken literally and may be linked to the Hiram Abiff story of burying and then raising.  3 men, 33 feet, shafts, trees, treasure, it's all allegory and metaphors.

Lewis Carrol's story is partly inspired by a parody that was written in London in the late 1840s by the Nova Scotian Thomas Haliburton, imo.  Haliburton was known as a literary figure to Carroll, and it seems that both included the taking of shots at the "nonsense" suggestions of Freemasonry regarding those "ark" references that we can attribute to the popular Lord Anson treasure stories that were being referenced to explain the brouhaha to the uninitiated and poorly read interested on both side of the Atlantic.  Haliburton's very well known character, Sam Slick, was a favorite of Carroll's from a young age. Some expressions Haliburton coined did find their way into Carroll's work in the 1860s-70s. 

The idea that it was once meant to be a fable is possible, but by the 1840s it had also become exploited by some NS Masons to separate some interested parties from their investment dollars by suggesting the thing was very real and in need of exploration. Efforts to rescue the story from its shady beginnings were made aftrewards, especially by the respected Rosicrucian Reginald Harris who seems to have made a lifelong effort to be the caretaker of the fine details of that story (numerologically precise details to aid in the appreciation). 

In my estimation a story was back dated to be consistent with earlier Masonic activity there. That activity would relate to the surveying of the Shoreham Grant which included OI by important men within first Masonic lodge in NS who made up the high ranks of the 40th regiment of foot.  That occurred in 1762.

In 1763 settlers from Rhode island were brought in to fill the empty colony which had just been hollowed by the eviction of the original French and native population from their lands. The work of preparing the grant was executed by the lodge founder's (Erasmus James Philips) associate. His name was Charles Morris, and he later became the Old Judge in one sense of the telling of Halliburton's account. The Morris' were successive Surveyor Generals of NS and were prominent Masonic builders in Halifax. Some of them were known to Haliburton who was also a judge in the colony.

Some of the townships that the original Morris had planned display rectangular planning that appears to be emulating the Temple of Solomon plan suggestions. The lodge itself did eventually take on the name of King Solomon lodge #54.  One interesting aspect of the earliest real history is that Philips died suddenly in 1760, and it is entirely possible that the events regarding the planning at and near OI included something that was done to pay homage to Philip's lauded achievement in bringing Freemasonry to NS. NS at this time was completely controlled by Freemasons from the military ranks. Many were Loyalists who closely identified with the rebuilding of the colony from its ashes and the symbolic story of the rising Phoenix.

It is known that the local German population had lore about strange geometric planning that occurred in the wilds of NS near present day Lunenburg post their arrival in 1752. This we account for using the fact that Morris' plans were all vey precise geometric constructions that had necessitated cutting long well defined lines through the wilderness. Important sums of money had been spent in laying out the future townships. Even the tiny OI was very well laid out and marked off with cairns and such. Evidence of that early planning is still visible today with roads, lot boundaries and traces of the earliest markers. 

There was likely a useful recollection of past events that inspired later confidence men, imo. You are right to think that what was employed was a known Masonic story about the discovery of the stone that foretells the second coming and the eventual attainment of the treasure. The stories are more like a hodge podge of suggestions if we examine them. They were meant to align with the North American Millerite frenzy regarding an end times prophecy culminating in 1843-44. OI as a morality tale is what I feel is part of Reginal Harris' contribution. Haliburton slyly compared it to Bunyan's "The Pilgrim's Progress" in his parody, suggesting that the upright man should not stray from the narrow path and be possibly drowned in a muddy swamp or be buried alive in a collapsed shaft on a "hill of lucre" looking for something no one could even name.

Harris made lemonade out of lemons, so to speak. By doing so he naturally would have captured any existing belief that Francis Bacon was a player in the History of Freemasonry/Rosicrucianism. It may even be that this was believed as early on as 1738 since Philips came from Boston where the York Rite surely had a profound influence on ideas about lineages. Keep in mind that the Holy Royal Arch was then an adjunct level of initiation that was reserved for Master Masons. It was part of the completion that followed the initial three levels of initiation.  This is typically believed to be where the Solomonic influences originated in Freemasonry. You can tenuously trace back the Holy Royal Arch to the early "Acception" group(s) of London who were inspired by the structure of the operative Freemasonry of Scotland. The Arch was the symbol of something well built that could stand the test of time. It was Royal because of its rumored connection to English Kings at York and going back to King Solomon. A lot of repurposing of stories is happening if you ask me.

I enjoy looking at stories that are similar to the OI one and that work their way back to Shakespeare via a Bacon suggestion. I feel these types of stories are quite old and close to Freemasonry. I am intrigued by the possibility that even Francis was doing the same sort of crafting of stories to teach the world a thing or two about the pursuit of knowledge (symbolized by the quest for the Ark).

 

 

Edited June 25 by RoyalCraftiness

[Kate]

Very interesting, thank you. Something all OI fanatics should read! 

[RoyalCraftiness]

13 hours ago, Kate said:

Very interesting, thank you. Something all OI fanatics should read! 

As an aside, my personal interest is related to the fact that details in the original OI story were fished from a historical account of events associated with a retrieval of something  from an nearby island in 1830. Prior to 1830 there isn't documented "treasure" story in Mahone Bay. So even the OI origins are borrowed stories. What local Masons may have known about the event could have served in the construction of a narrative around the retelling of some other Masonic stories made to align. In the case of the local Historian Desbrisay, he never understood why search efforts failed to be where the treasure story appears to have originated. The fact it shifted to OI made it useful to tie it to a known earlier planning by Masons there. On top of that there is the fact that the original money pit site was already owned by a man, one of the alleged three boys that had discovered it on a sailing jaunt there. The sailing to an island by three youths telling a tall tale strengthened by three voices is precisely how Carroll introduced "Alice's adventures in Wonderland" in an introductory poem. The publishing of that work happens to coincide with the period of the popularization of the OI mystery that happened in the 1860s; shifting it away, in a sense, from some of the earlier Masonic references. How OI may have been tackled by story tellers may have found influence in the popular ("Treasure Island" by Stevenson, i.e.) It should be said that we do lack the knowledge of when exactly some of the details were popularized in the NS press. It began around 1862-63 and continues to this day. Prior to that the details were always sourced from searcher groups.

The history at OI does not align with the stories at the very beginning. On the matter of what occurred at the original site of a retrieval, at Hobson's Nose, this is where where one can begin to weave it to a Baconian suggestion by considering Bacon's idea that the globe is like a flute (experiment 222 in SS) and has points upon it which demonstrate proportions which one can derive from a "music of the sphere" consideration. Does this involve Francis Flute and the Bellman suggestion? It is only too funny to think it does. When a Quebec native friend of mine wished me happy Saint-Jean-Baptiste day (it's their national holiday) I was triggered into recalling it was day of Masonic relevance too. When we look to its roots we discover this choice of date is related to the Midsummer day festival, and then we can go to " A Midsummer Night's Dream" to see what we possibly glean there. It happens to have some interesting features. I had never gone to Shakespeare looking to tie experiment 222 on flutes with Bacon. Francis Flute immediately jumps out...

Hobson's Nose, whatever else it may be, sits at the intersection of two Great Circles involving the earliest British colonial settlements in NA which Bacon has associations with, has a longitude and latitude in proportion 3/2 (Pythagorean harmonic ratio) and has coordinates that sum to 111 if taken from Paris. It also sits almost exactly 100 degrees of longitude West of Jerusalem with Paris being a point that cuts those 100 degrees in 66.6 and 33.3 slices (2:1). Those slices are the ones that simple cipher fans recognize as being equal to the values for Francis and Bacon (67+33=100).

In that regard it is the third point in North America that makes the math work out. It also famously aligns with Alexandria  through the Pillars of Hercules on a Mercator map, making an island there fit Solon's ancient description of Atlantis, an island that Bacon famously had an interest in to give us his morality tale about the New Atlantis for the age of exploration.

It is entirely possible that the entire events at Hobson's Nose were also contrived by someone in order to make that bit of appreciated knowledge stand out. Sorting out who knew what and when is rather important. Knowing what occurred is just as important as why that may have occurred. To quote Halliburton, there is a mystery in Mahone Bay, but it is not what people assume it is. He was pointing us towards people's intentions. What were they? Is any of this actually factual? We seem to lack a lot of the primary source information that would help. An eyewitness statement by an elderly woman who helped guide the men who sailed to locate Hobson's Nose was said by DesBrisay to have been taken. If it was then that is the earliest documented bit of evidence that someone had discovered a reason to go there to retrieve something. It would be a beginning for a treasure account in Mahone Bay. One still has to remain skeptical until hard evidence is produced. There is something about this that isn't a coincidence, though. Bacon is involved or he is made to appear to be involved by some very crafty story tellers capable of making things too good to not accept.

I have favored turning to Sylva Sylvarum for cues, because there we know that Rawley had said there were some things to discover within it that were not overtly given. As a swan song for Bacon it seems to be a good place to look for a final repository of guidance he may have wanted placed there.

We should keep mind that the numerological and mathematic games played by Lewis Carroll later in the telling of his stories isn't actually original to him. He's repeating a sort of style that he had appreciated. We can wonder how far back that sort of thing was being used. There's every indication that it is something that alchemists liked to do to evoke the body of work in the esoteric. In his nonsense poems, LC likely uses this technique to evoke the esotericism of his own age when he makes fun of it. He had a deep interest in mathematics to fish from. We can wonder about his obsession with 42. It's an interesting number. The digits sum to 6, giving us two numbers in 2:1 proportion that also involve 3:1 and 3:2. Spelling it out as forty-two also points us in the direction of two 40 years periods, and that has a series of Biblical and Masonic connotations. "Jabberwocky" and "The Hunting of the Snark" are a pair of works that work together, giving a more precise type of nonsense suggestion. Carroll's motivations for writing them are not that well understood when you look into it. Commenters tend to go looking into his own life for the inspiration. I think he was clearly onto the idea of the 2:1 as the representation of the overt and covert, the number and its reciprocal, the image and it's reflection through he looking glass. It also evokes what is real and what is imagined in a dream. He had quite an interest in imaginary numbers, a newish type of Maths in his day. You see references to it in a famous puzzle of his.

Edited June 26 by RoyalCraftiness

[Light-of-Truth]

3 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

We should keep mind that the numerological and mathematic games played by Lewis Carroll later in the telling of his stories isn't actually original to him. He's repeating a sort of style that he had appreciated. We can wonder how far back that sort of thing was being used. There's every indication that it is something that alchemists liked to do to evoke the body of work in the esoteric.

Are these the same numerological and mathematic games some of us do here on the B'Hive and you challenge us to question our beliefs? 😉

I would be open to the idea that these same games we play today go back the very beginning of Western ideas, whatever or whoever that involves. For we who play with numbers, regardless of our knowledge or experience, it's hard for us to NOT feel like we are tapping into something that is known yet esoteric. Whatever it may be.

I suggest if there is a Time Machine we can enter and travel Past and Future, it is by the numerological and mathematic games only some lucky few of us Fooles stumble into. LOL

 

 

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

7 minutes ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Are these the same numerological and mathematic games some of us do here on the B'Hive and you challenge us to question our beliefs? 😉

I would be open to the idea that these same games we play today go back the very beginning of Western ideas, whatever or whoever that involves. For we who play with numbers, regardless of our knowledge or experience, it's hard for us to NOT feel like we are tapping into something that is known yet esoteric. Whatever it may be.

I suggest if there is a Time Machine we can enter and travel Past and Future, it is by the numerological and mathematic games only some lucky few of us Fooles stumble into. LOL

 

 

 

What is to be questioned is if there ought to be belief. I don't like that you say that I question your beliefs. I question whether any belief ought to even exist, mine included if that applies. The word is so meaningless and yet necessary for some to feel secure. We deal in suggestions, always. Those that are our own are still suggestions. If we make them we should be fine with just making them and calling them that. Belief is so much more. It is the unconditional acceptance of a suggestion. If it is just conditional acceptance then we are free from belief and open to knowing better.  I hope none of us are held by belief; because it is they who hold the man, not the other way around. I would want a world free of belief, but that is not going to work with people who claim to know what they know from sources no one has access to. This is a theory of knowing I cannot find evidence of. It is also a theory no one can demonstrate. There's no shortage of examples of people who have tried passing that suggestion.

The mathematical games we have are a consequence of the world viewed as a place with discrete things in it. The games would look different if we did not have ten digits on our hands and feet, but the patterns would still be there begging for an explanation of the structure of numbering systems.

What I mention about the computing of numbers is as useful to show that anyone could have imagined that third point as well as Bacon in order to implicate him. It is therefore not a proof that Bacon is the architect.  There's a minefield of possible interpretations in trying to deal in stories without clear origins. 

I like your suggestions as suggestions and I have little us for them as beliefs that ought to be shared by me or others, lol. I don't like that you feel disappointment in not being able to have them be shared. People ought to not believe you. I would hope that no one believes me. I hope we can at least understand our perspectives. It is not about one being right or wrong. The middle way is to see ourselves as people making suggestions that aren't required to lead to belief. That's conditional acceptance, and that is what science works on.

[Light-of-Truth]

5 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

I don't like that you say that I question your beliefs. I question whether any belief ought to even exist, mine included if that applies.

Well, I like that you question mine whether or not you like that I state it. 🙂

It may not be all about you, I question my beliefs all the time. You just remind me to do so. And yes you do question all of our beliefs here! All the time! 🙂

I'm a Balloon head of ideas floating along happy and free. The (any and every) string connected to Earth that keeps me from floating too far away is welcome indeed. My wife is one of those strings...

That said, I am holding a pair of scissors cutting today's string right now. FREE to float away in the gentle breath of us all ...

 

 

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:04 PM, Light-of-Truth said:

Well, I like that you question mine whether or not you like that I state it. 🙂

It may not be all about you, I question my beliefs all the time. You just remind me to do so. And yes you do question all of our beliefs here! All the time! 🙂

I'm a Balloon head of ideas floating along happy and free. The (any and every) string connected to Earth that keeps me from floating too far away is welcome indeed. My wife is one of those strings...

That said, I am holding a pair of scissors cutting today's string right now. FREE to float away in the gentle breath of us all ...

 

 

 

The more we like about each other the better.  We cannot possibly completely overlap in the way we think since we both have developed our own ways of thinking with the guidance of others. That we now intersect means many relationships are in a tangle.

Everything you show that has elegance is interesting. I'm not the one who will suggest that elegance ought to double as a proof of an exterior agent. There is plenty of elegance baked into the use of numbers that have fundamental relationships between them. For the love of what is elegant in number there have been cults of number and there have been people working to find even more elegance. The deeper one digs, or goes down the rabbit hole, the more we may want to believe that an infinity or coincidences has to mean something. It's not clear that it does.

Edited June 28 by RoyalCraftiness

[Light-of-Truth]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:24 PM, RoyalCraftiness said:

The idea of the Masonic password may not have been popularized yet. It may have come with the Masonic handshake into popular culture.

HAND SHAKE is 157 Reverse cipher which I like to relate to Secrets.

Is the "Secret Handshake" all about the 157 Seal number and all its power?

We, at best, kick around these numbers that were made known in 1910-16 (or so) by Frates Roseae Crucis.

And whether or not one has studied the valuable teachings offered by this Earth Shaking book, we all know of this image that might possibly be an engraving of Bacon.