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Francis Bacon, the God-like Rosicrucian Figure of Duke Vincentio in Measure for Measure

A Phoenix

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37 minutes ago, A Phoenix said:

A History of the Minories, Edward Murray Tomlinson, 1907


The Minories – History and Architecture



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On 4/4/2023 at 8:57 PM, Eric Roberts said:

Hi Christie. Thank you for addressing this issue once again. You make some very valid points. Taken out of context, the suggestion that Sir Nicholas's life may have been shortened by foul play may sound far-fetched. However, over the course of several lengthy papers, videos and slide series, I think the Phoenixes have established clear grounds for not taking F.B.'s account of his adoptive father's death at face value. Legally, nothing can be proved or disproved at this late stage, but there is enough circumstantial evidence to at least keep an open mind and an open verdict. There must be room for conjecture, even if supportive references are lacking, simply because inquests can be manipulated and "historical accounts" falsified to protect the status quo. 

I do feel strongly that defamation of a dead man who is not here to defend himself is morally & ethically wrong, even if not legally possible, generally speaking, in U.S. jurisdictions today. Sir Edward Coke, in Bacon's time, in England, said the slander of a dead man was a living fault.  (Don Herzog, Defaming the Dead (New Haven: Yale University Press, ‒017), 111‒113, 112, citing Lord Coke on defamation: “I will not admit a dead man; for tho’ spoken of him, it is a living fault” from A Vindication of the Lord Chancellor Bacon, from the Aspersion of Injustice, Cast Upon Him by Mr. Wraynham (London, 1725), 33, https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/118195/herzog_defaming the dead.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y (from my paper, "Violence, Violins, Vindication," pdf, here on SirBacon, p. 9. But I heard it first here on SirBacon, from Nieves Matthews' book, Francis Bacon: The History of a Character Assassination (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1996), https://sirbacon.org/nmathewsbook.htm.

Barbara Shapiro wrote about how Francis Bacon helped set the standards for how we know when a thing is factually true or not, first in the courtroom, and later as applied to scientific knowledge, in her book, A Culture of Fact: England 1550-1720 (Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 2003).  


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8 hours ago, Christie Waldman said:

I do feel strongly that defamation of a dead man who is not here to defend himself is morally & ethically wrong, even if not legally possible, generally speaking, in U.S. jurisdictions today.

I'll add to that I feel strongly that malicious defamation of a living man who is not able to defend himself is wrong as well. That might be opposed to a man who is able to defend himself with money and power who needs defamed. LOL

You edited out a line that for me was a spark for my day regarding SirBacon, but its been a crazy busy day.

From the inception of the B'Hive idea when Lawrence and I even first kicked it around, we knew we needed a spectrum of who Baconians are. With Lawrence and myself, we cover a pretty wide expanse and still Love each other and get along. Remember the first three letters of one of us is, "LAW". Me? You can call me 1881 for short. LOL

Over the years, I have become more like Mr. SirBacon, and I see he has become more like me. If we all live long enough, we may enjoy the Middle Path together.

As the pendulum Will swing this way and that on the B'Hive over some years, as long as we have a wide and well-spoken respectable dialog, we Will all grow together making our immortal Bacon very proud. 🙂

Christie, when I first heard the latest story of Bacon's father I was shocked. Wow! I heard the "wife falling down the stairs" story from the beginning. But it was never a focus.

Honestly, I had nothing of substance to reference to. I am still confused on what he was called over time. But yea, "WOW!" Bacon's "accepted" father for many Baconians, not all, was Robert Dudley and we see a convincing theory based on some evidence that he was the murderer of Bacon's other father, Sir Nicholas Bacon.

CJ would list me in the club of people who "believe" easily. I get it, and I understand the logic (even Law logic). Except for math, words and ideas have a very hard time being proved. Sometimes there is magic where a convincing idea takes root, and I don't even fight it if it fits in my own belief world. I LOVE being in my World.

I do feel strongly that ideas need to be shared. That is how we as humans evolve. Convincing ideas should catch fire and grow, and then any and every question should be asked to see if there is a hint of Truth. That way as beliefs, and the "magic" get nurtured, there is a base to refer to if it has substance.

Today, I feel like Dudley was a bad guy from recently reading some researched and deeply thought out presentations. You standing up for a dead guy who may have been a wonderful man and Bacon's father who is not here to defend himself is appropriate. If this was a series on TV I'd be watching every episode. LOL



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Thank you, Light-of-Truth. I am sorry I edited out a line you had liked. I'm curious what it was (I did not save the prior version). Maybe it was about wanting SirBacon.org to continue to be a trusted source of information on Francis Bacon? I believe that's something we all want. Yes, I agree that sharing ideas is good, and people ought to be willing to reconsider what they believe to be true when they are presented with good reasoning and evidence to the contrary.    

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