Ben Jonson tells us Bacon is Shakespeare

[Allisnum2er]

Christie, your great suggestion that Pers. could mean something else than Persius opened the universe of possibilities 😊.

I wondered if "Pers." could per se ("by itself" in Latin and sounds in french like Persée the French for Perseus) be important.

Here is a very interesting article ( Alas written in french ) https://www.persee.fr/doc/roma_0035-8029_1923_num_49_194_4534)

 (notice the name of the website 🙂 ) about the color Pers. (perse) and its possible connection with Hyacinthus / AJAX.

I already talked by the future( (I mean by the past 😄) about the end of "Discoveries" mentionning AJAX, and the fact that AJAX and BACON shared the same ciphers.

    

It could have been a subterfuge used by Ben Jonson to hide BACON/AJAX at the Beginning and at the End of "Discoveries".

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

Revelation 22:13  - King James Bible

 

 

[Eric Roberts]

3 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Follow up on previous reply...

Eric, I apologize if this makes you uncomfortable. You have been vocal about the "AI vs. Human" potential, and I hear you Brother! But we are in a big AI takeover, good or bad. In just the past four months things have changed a lot.

I did sell out the other day and peeked at AI Logo ideas for my Light-of-Truth website. Wow, not shabby at all and I could never come up with over 90,000 examples in two minutes. Maybe I have enough new ideas from AI to create my own Human version. But hey, time in not something I have any extra, and if I did come up with something on my own AI has already fed me hundreds of fresh ideas so it would never be pure. 😉

 

Hi L-o-T. More disappointed than uncomfortable - that human dependency on "the machine" continues unabated  to our peril. All I ask is that any use of AI in terms of design and art of all kinds should be clearly labeled as such, so the consumer has a more informed choice in deciding what to consume. 

XTC - The Disappointed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1n0dwkfPs4

 

[Light-of-Truth]

51 minutes ago, Eric Roberts said:

Hi L-o-T. More disappointed than uncomfortable - that human dependency on "the machine" continues unabated  to our peril. All I ask is that any use of AI in terms of design and art of all kinds should be clearly labeled as such, so the consumer has a more informed choice in deciding what to consume. 

XTC - The Disappointed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1n0dwkfPs4

 

A few weeks ago I had a business lunch with a creative team I work with. Graphic Designers were discussing how anyone can use AI and create a years worth of designs with a click. Of course, creative sales and marketing experience sets us apart, for now.

Programmers are also at risk as AI is writing and troubleshooting code.

Teaching AI how to think is a new job where no technology is required. You just talk with AI and teach it by having a human-like conversation.

Microsoft is talking about a new AI called Athena. I got a promotion about an app where I can talk to a historic figure from the past. Shakespeare was mentioned. If there is a Bacon one can talk to, I hope the AI had Sirbacon.org in its data collection.

Yea, Eric, it is happening as we speak. I've been aware, but sleeping too long. Nobody will be able to fight it. Its time we start to figure out how we'll live with it.

in 1978 working for NCR in West Virginia when we installed bar code readers in a small hick town several churches were protesting us outside stating they would boycott the store as they thought bar codes were the Mark of the Beast. Within a year every real grocery store in south West Virginia had scanners and profits grew. Even Southern Baptists bought their food in the same stores.

I'm not afraid of AI. But the more I know about it the better.

Weather forecasts, energy grids, banking processes, so much is already AI.

Our History is a concern for me. There is always someone who wants to change history to meet their needs. Can AI get to the Truth by data that is out the now or will it follow the latest popular trends?

 

 

[Light-of-Truth]

1 hour ago, Eric Roberts said:

Hi L-o-T. More disappointed than uncomfortable - that human dependency on "the machine" continues unabated  to our peril. All I ask is that any use of AI in terms of design and art of all kinds should be clearly labeled as such, so the consumer has a more informed choice in deciding what to consume. 

XTC - The Disappointed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1n0dwkfPs4

 

AI just told me this:

It is important to note, however, that the goals of an AI system are always determined by its programming and design, and may not align with human values or priorities. For this reason, there is an ongoing debate among AI researchers and ethicists about how to ensure that AI systems are aligned with human goals and values, and do not cause harm or act in ways that are counter to our interests.

Eric, when AI says, "counter to our interests", who or what does "our interests" refer to???

🙂

 

[Allisnum2er]

https://archive.org/details/corneliigiselber00plem/page/157/mode/1up?ref=ol&view=theater

I am trying to translate the text. I love the first three lines ...

This is my safe house, my cloister, my hearth, my palace, my moat.
Rest in peace, if you are looking for me, I live here.
And I am the Kingdom ;

❤️

 

[Allisnum2er]

And here is something else, on page 177 of Amosterdamum monogrammon,

beyond a reference to Venus and Adonis.

https://archive.org/details/corneliigiselber00plem/page/177/mode/1up?ref=ol&view=theater

Once again, I do not know if it was intended, or if it is my imagination that is playing tricks on me.

In any case, if it is a coincidence, it is an interesting one !

[Lawrence Gerald]

On 4/18/2023 at 6:17 PM, Lawrence Gerald said:

Roger Stritmatter  responds back : Lawrence Gerald       Mr. Gerald, my statement was quite correct and I am shocked that someone like yourself, with such an obviously incomplete and faulty comprehension of the Oxford case, should think it prudent to contradict me on such flimsy evidence. Unlike you, I will not try in this context to offer a summary that would require several books to complete. Most importantly, beyond the obvious discrepancy in the quantity and quality of evidence between the two theories, there is the small matter that compelling arguments against your theory, set forth in some cases more than a hundred years ago, by Robertson (style), Cole (patterns of Bible allusion), and Spurgeon (image patterns) all contradict your belief and have not to my knowledge ever been answered by advocates of it. Finally, would it be too much to ask you to stop making statements like "a person in your position"? That is really not, as I'm sure Alexander Waugh would say, "cricket." It is really just a disguised ad hominem, apparently compensating for a lack of research on your part. Good day.Write some books or articles. This matter will not be settled on youtube. https://shake-speares-bible.com/

" Shakespeare's Imagery and what it tells us"  Book by Professor Caroline Sturgeon, Stratfordian

"I have not to my knowledge ever been answered by advocates of it." Roger Stritmatter, Oxfordian

 

Reply to an Oxfordian, Roger Stritmatter, who conveniently uses a Stratfordian Professor,  Caroline Spurgeon's  short sighted book on Image Patterns and Shakespeare that instead ends up vaildating Bacon's imagery being Shakespearean and not negating it.

 

@Roger Stritmatter 

In 1969 two writers  in Baconiana  set the record straight on  Professor Spurgeon's book on Shakespeare Imagery. Spurgeon  has an Image Problem. "In seeking Shakespeare she has discovered Bacon. " https://sirbacon.org/spurgeon.htm

[Christie Waldman]

(Original comment of 1 hr. ago deleted).

13 hours ago, Lawrence Gerald said:

" Shakespeare's Imagery and what it tells us"  Book by Professor Caroline Sturgeon, Stratfordian

"I have not to my knowledge ever been answered by advocates of it." Roger Stritmatter, Oxfordian

 

Reply to an Oxfordian, Roger Stritmatter, who conveniently uses a Stratfordian Professor,  Caroline Spurgeon's  short sighted book on Image Patterns and Shakespeare that instead ends up vaildating Bacon's imagery being Shakespearean and not negating it.

 

@Roger Stritmatter 

In 1969 two writers  in Baconiana  set the record straight on  Professor Spurgeon's book on Shakespeare Imagery. Spurgeon  has an Image Problem. "In seeking Shakespeare she has discovered Bacon. " https://sirbacon.org/spurgeon.htm

My comment (one of several) which I posted last night, and again today, and do not see it, or others, made on this same Waugh Ben Jonson Timber youtube presentation page, dated from a few weeks ago:

My comment (with boldface for emphasis):

Jonson, in "Timber," on the requirements of a poet, says, "But, that which we especially require in him is an exactness of Studie, and a multiplicity of reading, which maketh a full man ...." Sounds like he is quoting and making reference to Francis Bacon's essay, "Of Studies" (1625): "Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man ...." See Donald Leman Clark, "The Requirements of a Poet: A Note on The Sources of Ben Jonson's 'Timber," Paragraph 130," Modern Philology, vol 16 (Dec. 1918), pp. 413-429, (on JSTOR, 433101).

 

 

[Christie Waldman]

Comment I just made at the Waugh Ben Jonson Timber youtube page:

 

Quote

 

Yes, I apologize. I now see, with some embarrassment, that Lawrence Gerald provided the very quotation to which you are referring in a comment here seven days ago (his third paragraph quoted which begins:

 

"My conceit of his Person was never increased toward him by his place or honours. But I have and do reverence him for the greatness that was only proper to himself, in that he seemed to me ever, by his work, one of the greatest men and most worthy of admiration that had been in many ages ...." Yes, the whole passage is clearly talking about Bacon, (Lord Verulam, Viscount St. Alban, successor to Lord Egerton as Chancellor). Flattering references to Bacon abound in this passage.

 

Also, with reference to Bacon, I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the "Manes Verulamiani" (plural of Verulamianus), thirty-two poetic epitaphs to Bacon written by "scholars, his friends and contemporaries," published in 1626 by William Rawley. (See article, "Manes Verulamiani," on the Sir Bacon website).

 

A search for the term "de vere" in Timber (in the Gutenberg text) revealed just one reference:

 

"De vere argutis--I do hear them say often some men are not witty, because they are not everywhere witty; than which nothing is more foolish. If an eye or a nose be an excellent part in the face, therefore be all eye or nose! I think the eyebrow, the forehead, the cheek, chin, lip, or any part else are as necessary and natural in the place. But now nothing is good that is natural; right and natural language seems to have least of the wit in it; that which is writhed and tortured is counted the more exquisite. Cloth of bodkin or tissue must be embroidered; as if no face were fair that were not powdered or painted! no beauty to be had but in wresting and writhing our own tongue! Nothing is fashionable till it be deformed; and this is to write like a gentleman. All must be affected and preposterous as our gallants’ clothes, sweet-bags, and night-dressings, in which you would think our men lay in, like ladies, it is so curious." (in the Gutenberg text, scroll down about two inches).

 

 

[Allisnum2er]

42 minutes ago, Christie Waldman said:

Comment I just made at the Waugh Ben Jonson Timber youtube page:

 

 

Hi Christie,

In fact, I believe that both Lawrence, Rob and myself have already mentionned "Manes Verulamiani".😊

But one more time is not to much ! I welcome you to the Club ! 😉 

 

[Christie Waldman]

Thank you! I suppose it was an obvious connection to make. But I wonder if I saw your comments. Not all comments I have made there are visible, even when I sign in.

Brian Vickers called Caroline Spurgeon's book on Shakespeare imagery "naive" in his book, Francis Bacon and Renaissance Poetry.

Edited April 25 by Christie Waldman

[Light-of-Truth]

50 minutes ago, Christie Waldman said:

Thank you! I suppose it was an obvious connection to make. But I wonder if I saw your comments. Not all comments I have made there are visible, even when I sign in.

Brian Vickers called Caroline Spurgeon's book on Shakespeare imagery "naive" in his book, Francis Bacon and Renaissance Poetry.

I haven't gone back to see if my comments are up. I jumped in for a bit, but jumped out after a while too. 😉

 

[Christie Waldman]

We were making a good showing there. Maybe they felt too good of a showing.