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Graven by William Hole

image.png.1e754bc9194fbc8fec21d064a1b99d1a.png

I don't find much about William Hole so far. But here is another map he did where West is up.

https://www.whytes.ie/art/1607-map-by-william-hole-and-christopher-saxton-hibernie-first-edition/150337/?SearchString=&LotNumSearch=&GuidePrice=&OrderBy=&ArtistID=&ArrangeBy=list&NumPerPage=15&offset=2

image.png.0a2aacedb28e644ef6284991c75c9d74.png

Here's a little info:

https://oldhampshiremapped.org.uk/hantsmap/cmprose.htm

north     
For many of us 'north' is the primary point of the compass and 'up is north' on the map page; this is not true for every situation or culture. Not all maps are printed north upwards.

The point might be labelled N or North, or perhaps in Latin, Septentriones, referring to the seven stars that make up the constellation of The Bear, or Plough, that is a pointer for the Pole Star in the North. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Sept.
British maps traditionally mark the north point with a fleur de lys.

east
The east point might be labelled E or East or perhaps in Latin, Oriens, from the verb orior, to rise, reminding us where the sun rises. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Ori.

The point might be marked with a sort of cross potent or cross patee.

south
The south point might be labelled S or South or perhaps in Latin, Meridiens, referring to where the sun is in the middle of the day [in the northern hemisphere north of the tropics]. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Meri.

The point might be marked with a crescent.

west
The west point might be labelled W or West or perhaps in Latin, Occidens, from the Latin occido, to fall or set, reminding us where the sun sets. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Occi.

The point might be marked with a cross crosslet, usually with a circle at the centre.

EDIT:

On William Hole, Mather Walker says this:

Was Francis Bacon a Masked Musician?

https://sirbacon.org/mmusic.htm

In addition to this the engraving is made by William Hole [“Parthenia or The maydenhead of the first musicke that [eue]r was printed for the virginals”]. William Hole engraved the 1616 headpiece for Ben Jonson’s collected works, a work marked with the Baconian devices, as well as Raleigh’s portrait for his History of the World, another works marked with Bacon’s devices. Hole also engraved a number of other works connected to Bacon’s printing operation.

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5 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Lines from the compass to the crown are interesting as well.

image.png.89073dba1c71974525980b8685557c71.png

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Based on the fact that the legend itself seems to invite us to consider the relationships I've looked deeper into the composition of this image with an eye on seeing how the placement of the design elements relate to each other.

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The starting point must be the center of the Compass Rose (I), because it is by definition the center of all bearings.

What I have done is simply project circles outwardly from that point in the same manner that it was imagined the cosmology of the Universe was structured (and in the way that Bacon imagined the Mundus Intellectuallis as being one sphere of influence of man's ideas upon the globe).

The CR (compass rose), I, is related to the A in the of the center of page by setting point U, which is the center of the rectangle showing the illustration in the top left. This circle also defines the center of the compass arms above the scale of leagues, R. By giving U, the rectangle QPLO is given in relation to the edge of the map. This gives the lines that intersect at O which work to define the square in this image O-C1-W-A1 with the vertical of the other compass in the image and the horizontal from I. The square has a center B1 which is on the main square diagonal that extends to Z, the tip of the A. The CR center also can be used to make a circle that gives us the Maltese Cross in the middle of the crown atop the garter and the shield. This circle captures the top edge of the page at V (the center vertical) and the center of the chevron in the Smith coat of arms, S. CR also can be the center for a circle that catches the right edge of the page at D1, giving us the position of the top of the bow at E1.

It occurred to me that perhaps point B1 (the center of the square) was also the center of concentric circles (it is by definition one using the square corners). If we make it be a center for a circle that goes through the CR center, I,  we discover that this gives the center of the shield in the garter. 

How about the A itself in the center of the page. As a center it also relates to the corner of the square at A1 by giving G1 (I've drawn that circle in blue).

As I mentioned before the center B1 provides a vertical which bisects the Virginia scroll.

There's a clear relationship between the design elements. This is a great way to suggest that there may in fact also be a relationship with the cross placements that one can discover. The legend seems to say this cryptically by saying that the meaning is the relation.

One question that I would ask is: was this in any way consistent with John Smith's abilities to draw maps and charts? I feel we can probably say yes based on the fact that celestial navigation (the standard of the time) requires this exact same exercise in the drawing of circles. In many ways it is exactly how one manages to position himself on the globe and how one draws a Compass Rose to begin with. We'd be forced to conclude Smith was a very capable mind, which is possible. It's also possible that the map was produced by the Virginia Company showing Smith's charting in a more artistic way.

 

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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3 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Graven by William Hole

image.png.1e754bc9194fbc8fec21d064a1b99d1a.png

I don't find much about William Hole so far. But here is another map he did where West is up.

https://www.whytes.ie/art/1607-map-by-william-hole-and-christopher-saxton-hibernie-first-edition/150337/?SearchString=&LotNumSearch=&GuidePrice=&OrderBy=&ArtistID=&ArrangeBy=list&NumPerPage=15&offset=2

image.png.0a2aacedb28e644ef6284991c75c9d74.png

Here's a little info:

https://oldhampshiremapped.org.uk/hantsmap/cmprose.htm

north     
For many of us 'north' is the primary point of the compass and 'up is north' on the map page; this is not true for every situation or culture. Not all maps are printed north upwards.

The point might be labelled N or North, or perhaps in Latin, Septentriones, referring to the seven stars that make up the constellation of The Bear, or Plough, that is a pointer for the Pole Star in the North. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Sept.
British maps traditionally mark the north point with a fleur de lys.

east
The east point might be labelled E or East or perhaps in Latin, Oriens, from the verb orior, to rise, reminding us where the sun rises. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Ori.

The point might be marked with a sort of cross potent or cross patee.

south
The south point might be labelled S or South or perhaps in Latin, Meridiens, referring to where the sun is in the middle of the day [in the northern hemisphere north of the tropics]. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Meri.

The point might be marked with a crescent.

west
The west point might be labelled W or West or perhaps in Latin, Occidens, from the Latin occido, to fall or set, reminding us where the sun sets. The Latin term might be abbreviated, eg Occi.

The point might be marked with a cross crosslet, usually with a circle at the centre.

EDIT:

On William Hole, Mather Walker says this:

Was Francis Bacon a Masked Musician?

https://sirbacon.org/mmusic.htm

In addition to this the engraving is made by William Hole [“Parthenia or The maydenhead of the first musicke that [eue]r was printed for the virginals”]. William Hole engraved the 1616 headpiece for Ben Jonson’s collected works, a work marked with the Baconian devices, as well as Raleigh’s portrait for his History of the World, another works marked with Bacon’s devices. Hole also engraved a number of other works connected to Bacon’s printing operation.

It's graven by Hole, but I'd be curious to know who produced it for the engraver to pass on to the printer. This does not strike me as something that a ship's captain would make. It is far too elaborate.

Nothing is really added by arbitrarily rotating the cardinal points. All it really does is present us with a different view with may be more desirable. For all we know, Smith may have drawn a crude map which had this orientation. He may have preferred it. We must also remember that Jerusalem was first portrayed as being atop the world in what we would call North. Before standardization it may have been deemed desirable to have North point East for religious reasons.

 

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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39 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

It's graven by Hole, but I'd be curious to know who produced it for the engraver to pass on to the printer. This does not strike me as something that a ship's captain would make. It is far too elaborate.

Nothing is really added by arbitrarily rotating the cardinal points. All it really does is present us with a different view with may be more desirable. For all we know, Smith may have drawn a crude map which had this orientation. He may have preferred it. We must also remember that Jerusalem was first portrayed as being atop the world in what we would call North. Before standardization it may have been deemed desirable to have North point East for religious reasons.

 

This is an interesting article and here is a snippet:

https://www.she-philosopher.com/gallery/1608Zuniga.html

THE 1608 MS. CHART OF VIRGINIA is unattributed; we do not know who drew it. Captain John Smith may well have had a hand in it, since the chart illustrated his letter reporting on events in the colony to friends and stakeholders back home. But Alexander Brown has argued persuasively that there is no “real evidence that Smith could draw a map.” As for Smith’s well-known map of Virginia, engraved by William Hole and printed in 1612 and 1624, Brown points out that “the distances given in the text of his work do not always correspond with the distances on his map.”

    It seems to me certain that this map was engraved from a copy of the Virginia part of CLVIII. Correct maps must be alike; but when one inaccurate map follows so closely another, as in this case, it furnishes quite conclusive proof that the latter was copied from the former.

    (Brown, II:596)

Brown does “not believe that Smith made the drawing himself,” nor indeed does Smith “always claim to have done so,” referring in 1616 (in his A Description of New England) to the “Booke and Map printed in my name.”

To further bolster his argument that Smith used the drawings of other surveyors rather than making his own, Brown reproduces a sketch-map thought to be by Smith, since Smith enclosed it in a letter to Francis Bacon:

    In 1618, “to show the difference betwixt Virginia and New England,” Smith sent Lord Bacon “maps of them both.” The map of New England is missing; I give the map of Virginia (CCXLIII.). I believe it to be an illustration of Smith’s capacity as a draughtsman as it is probably an attempt by Smith to copy from some drawing of our present North Carolina coast.

    (Brown, II:596–7)

smithMSmap(6280x4100).jpg

Ms. map, “A description of the land of Virginia.” Copy (by Captain John Smith?) of a sketch-map of Ralegh’s Virginia (present-day North Carolina), ca. 1585, attributed to John White. Smith sent this copy (tracing?) of the original sketch to Francis Bacon in 1618.
First published in 1890 as a keyed drawing, item CCXLIII in volume 2 of Alexander Brown’s The Genesis of the United States. Map notations 1 through 13 have been added by Brown.

image.png

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Here's a beautiful engraving by William Hole where North is up:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1896-1230-120

Description
Engraved title-page to William Camden's 'Britannia', 2nd edition (London, George Bishop and John Norton, 1607); below the title, a map of Britain, inscribed with the Latin names places and tribes; above the title, a cartouche depicting the figure of Britannia, with shield and spear, seated on a rock beside the sea; to the left of the title, a bearded and nude male figure with crown and trident, accompanied by various marine animals and a large fish wrapped around one leg; to the right of the title, a female figure holding wheat; bottom left, a ship; bottom right, a cathedral; bottom centre, a cartouche depicting buildings, baths, and Stonehenge.
 
image.png.a9998a2bae14293466969344a3495a1d.png
 
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2 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

This is an interesting article and here is a snippet:

https://www.she-philosopher.com/gallery/1608Zuniga.html

THE 1608 MS. CHART OF VIRGINIA is unattributed; we do not know who drew it. Captain John Smith may well have had a hand in it, since the chart illustrated his letter reporting on events in the colony to friends and stakeholders back home. But Alexander Brown has argued persuasively that there is no “real evidence that Smith could draw a map.” As for Smith’s well-known map of Virginia, engraved by William Hole and printed in 1612 and 1624, Brown points out that “the distances given in the text of his work do not always correspond with the distances on his map.”

    It seems to me certain that this map was engraved from a copy of the Virginia part of CLVIII. Correct maps must be alike; but when one inaccurate map follows so closely another, as in this case, it furnishes quite conclusive proof that the latter was copied from the former.

    (Brown, II:596)

Brown does “not believe that Smith made the drawing himself,” nor indeed does Smith “always claim to have done so,” referring in 1616 (in his A Description of New England) to the “Booke and Map printed in my name.”

To further bolster his argument that Smith used the drawings of other surveyors rather than making his own, Brown reproduces a sketch-map thought to be by Smith, since Smith enclosed it in a letter to Francis Bacon:

    In 1618, “to show the difference betwixt Virginia and New England,” Smith sent Lord Bacon “maps of them both.” The map of New England is missing; I give the map of Virginia (CCXLIII.). I believe it to be an illustration of Smith’s capacity as a draughtsman as it is probably an attempt by Smith to copy from some drawing of our present North Carolina coast.

    (Brown, II:596–7)

smithMSmap(6280x4100).jpg

Ms. map, “A description of the land of Virginia.” Copy (by Captain John Smith?) of a sketch-map of Ralegh’s Virginia (present-day North Carolina), ca. 1585, attributed to John White. Smith sent this copy (tracing?) of the original sketch to Francis Bacon in 1618.
First published in 1890 as a keyed drawing, item CCXLIII in volume 2 of Alexander Brown’s The Genesis of the United States. Map notations 1 through 13 have been added by Brown.

image.png

I agree with this. I don't think Smith produced what we are considering. One of the really curious features is the fact that the point A has the correct latitude for Washington D.C. if we accept the latitudes given on the top edge of the map. If we rely on physical features we see that it is off by a bit more than 0.3 degrees in latitude. Anyone with seamanship skills would not make that scale of error. Whoever produced the map was given something crudely drawn and they placed it about where they wanted things to be, perhaps to highlight some point with symbolic coordinates.

Things are not quite right on that map. If we shift the Archer 0.3+ degrees he's at 40N which is the northern most limit of his visibility as Sagittarius.

I have no problem with saying this map was likely based on observations made by Smith only. I think that makes a lot of sense. And it also begins to tell us that the cross placements could very well also be fictitious in heir exact positioning.

So, who are the prime suspect within the Virginia Company who could have produced this?

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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2 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Here's a beautiful engraving by William Hole where North is up:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1896-1230-120

Description
Engraved title-page to William Camden's 'Britannia', 2nd edition (London, George Bishop and John Norton, 1607); below the title, a map of Britain, inscribed with the Latin names places and tribes; above the title, a cartouche depicting the figure of Britannia, with shield and spear, seated on a rock beside the sea; to the left of the title, a bearded and nude male figure with crown and trident, accompanied by various marine animals and a large fish wrapped around one leg; to the right of the title, a female figure holding wheat; bottom left, a ship; bottom right, a cathedral; bottom centre, a cartouche depicting buildings, baths, and Stonehenge.
 
image.png.a9998a2bae14293466969344a3495a1d.png
 

Yes, very nice.

I've found another Maltese Cross, lol. This one is probably the original one behind the entire composition. 

You discover it by considering the line through the center of the square at B1 and the center of the page at A. It's 23.5 degrees from horizontal. That's just scrumptious, because it is the axial tilt plane angle, or the angle at which the Earth is tilted that makes it point to Polaris at N.  It gives us the shifting polar stars as this axis wobbles around in its 25920 year cycle. You ought to know this by now because that was given to you in the Sonnets dedication by 81 x 64 for the average length of each of the five "stops" upon a major star in the precession cycle. These five stops are represented by the five pointed star.  This was imagined to be part of the geometric architecture of the cosmos (only for a short period at the end of the 16 th century and the beginning of the 17th century when geometry was being obssessed about).

When we reflect this angle around the page we discover more juicy relationships of high coincidence.  S1 becomes a point on the left edge which gives a horizontal that goes through the center of the shield in the garter., G1. R1 is a point on the top edge where that line coincides with the left side of the N in Virginia. P1 catches the edge of the scale of leagues.

B1 and A reveal their relationship to the globe.

When the lines are emphasized in red we see:

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Now we are once again left wondering what the meaning of the Cross is. The legend keeps telling us to explore the relationships. This is where it pays us to examine that symbol and its relations in Christendom. We are perhaps curious to know if the Knights of Malta have anything to do with the English history of Christendom. This is beginning to look eerily close the traditional backstory of Freemasonry.

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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A possible explanation for the A  in the center is found the Greek way to depict the cardinal points. A is in the position of North and stands for Aparctias to the Greeks, the deity associated with the North Winds. The A giving that line tilted by 23.5 degrees from the center of the square thus points to North.

The square is the symbol of the solid/material world in 4 dimensions so we can associate it with the spatial world. A circle drawn within the square would represent the Earth. The line through it pointing N is the Earths axis of rotation. Not really what one would call secret knowledge today. 

We can understand this as "evidence" these Christians had for their beliefs. They were convinced they were uncovering and acting out God's plan. Truth conquers. The native heathens never had a chance.

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19 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

We can understand this as "evidence" these Christians had for their beliefs. They were convinced they were uncovering and acting out God's plan. Truth conquers. The native heathens never had a chance.

Its pretty clear Smith's map is more than just a map.

Here is another amazing work by Hole:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1895-1031-481

image.png.1bc4e600a1fb2f787048c510d04da2c2.png

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2 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Its pretty clear Smith's map is more than just a map.

Here is another amazing work by Hole:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1895-1031-481

image.png.1bc4e600a1fb2f787048c510d04da2c2.png

Awesome finding Rob !!! 😮

Here are the definitions of"ARTIFEX" given by wiktionary

1) Artist, Actor

2) Craftsman, Master

3) Mastermind, schemer.

And it was engraved in 1616.

image.png.28a9ec8aa96c47d49b15da94943b4bc5.png

Notice the stylized number 33 in the middle of the right page of the book .

I think that we have also the numbers 137 and 7 ( with a stylized 7)

If I am right, all the numbers add to : 222 🙂 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Its pretty clear Smith's map is more than just a map.

Here is another amazing work by Hole:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1895-1031-481

image.png.1bc4e600a1fb2f787048c510d04da2c2.png

Nice. A celestial sphere and Globe showing the tropics. If you look closely at the celestial sphere there's a Great Circle alignment being depicted on it going through the bear (Ursa Major), Draco, Cassiopeia and adjacent to Triangulum (Miter of St Peter). I'll have a look at what that might be about.

Who are the people depicted as being trampled on by the surveyor? It's apparent they're being portrayed as goblins with pointed ears. Is that Pan with the head band? Is this the familiar lament of these esoteric times which proclaimed that "Pan is dead" to speak to the fact that the age of myths and legends has been supplanted with empiricism and science?

Do you see the surveying device there which is rotating on a metered planisphere?  That's the development that allowed for the measuring of angles in degrees of 360. One had to be able to construct it by engraving geometrically produced 1 degree gradations on steel/plates. This, I mentioned before, could only be done with a construction method for drawing a 40 degree angle. 40 is the key that unlocks one degree of arc by compass and rule construction.

This is a nice segue into what I was looking into last night.

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The hunch I had about Sagittarius being the archer is very strongly supported by what we see here in the night sky. Sagittarius is the astronomical archer. It has, since Antiquity, been easily identifiable by the fact that the arrow in its bow is pointing to Antares, the brightest star in Scorpius and one of the brightest in the sky. I've drawn that line here atop the image. It intersects the alignment of the three Novas (1572, 1600 and 1604) shown in thicker white dashes at the position of Kepler's Nova (1604) in the tail of Ophiuccus. This "holy" alignment was understood to be roughly pointed to in the night sky by the body of the swan (the stem of the Northern Cross) which sits at declination 40 degrees. Where we get even more evidence that we are encountering this is by noting that the alignment of Nova positions is 23.5 degrees from the body (the square body) in the constellation of Ursa Minor which is home to the North star. This is the inclination of the line from square center through the center of the page on our map. The square center is thus the square body part of Ursa Minor represented in the chart's "hidden" composition alignments.

We even have a possible cultural link to the image of the archer because he was Nanboujou to the woodlands Indians of Southern Canada and the Northern USA. This was their name for the larger constellation of Scorpius which our more familiar archer happens to point to. Quite coincidental, really. This may have been known by the Virgina Company from their efforts to colonize from Canada down to Virginia. It is linked to the expansive Ojibwe family of nations. Their language was rudimentarily learned by Europeans quite early on.

The Nova of 1604 was a major event of the early 17th century. Like the Nova event of 1600 in Cygnus it drew all sorts of attention, causing many to interpret various prophetic consequences. When the map was drawn it would have been fresh in the minds of the people who were dabbling in navigation techniques. This necessarily includes all scientific minds of the time.

As with the Blaeu celestial globe, some mapmakers and globe makers went out of their way to signal the placement of the Novas. It was considered to be a feather in one's cap to be able to show these things. Not everyone knew how to relate their positions.

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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1 hour ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Nice. A celestial sphere and Globe showing the tropics. If you look closely at the celestial sphere there's a Great Circle alignment being depicted on it going through the bear (Ursa Major), Draco, Cassiopeia and adjacent to Triangulum (Miter of St Peter). I'll have a look at what that might be about.

Who are the people depicted as being trampled on by the surveyor? It's apparent they're being portrayed as goblins with pointed ears. Is that Pan with the head band? Is this the familiar lament of these esoteric times which proclaimed that "Pan is dead" to speak to the fact that the age of myths and legends has been supplanted with empiricism and science?

Do you see the surveying device there which is rotating on a metered planisphere? 

Hi CJ,

Indeed, I noticed it, but I knew that you would be the best suited to find the hidden meaning of this part, as I am not an expert in Astronomy and Geometry. 😊

Regarding the two "men" being trampled on by the surveyor,  I have had the same idea as you with "Pan" but, as an afterthought, it reminded me certain Emblems and I think that it could be a reference to Fools.

"Lord, what fools these mortals be !"

IMG_20231212_195024.jpg.7b49f0c88c243c2e31a21d1b00b2c797.jpg

IMG_20231212_195242.jpg.528a03a493ec7728805a2a0b738db52a.jpg

https://archive.org/details/collectionofembl00withe/page/210/mode/2up

image.png.5b1d826b275edf67ef73a67f4ba7e6fc.png

And along the way, I crossed this Emblem related with THE ARCHER / Sagittarius of ... the Centaur. 😉 

https://archive.org/details/collectionofembl00withe/page/102/mode/2up?view=theater

image.png.f0e961e09d525991ff8c954425fa91d8.png

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4 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said:

Hi CJ,

Indeed, I noticed it, but I knew that you would be the best suited to find the hidden meaning of this part, as I am not an expert in Astronomy and Geometry. 😊

Regarding the two "men" being trampled on by the surveyor,  I have had the same idea as you with "Pan" but, as an afterthought, it reminded me certain Emblems and I think that it could be a reference to Fools.

"Lord, what fools these mortals be !"

IMG_20231212_195024.jpg.7b49f0c88c243c2e31a21d1b00b2c797.jpg

IMG_20231212_195242.jpg.528a03a493ec7728805a2a0b738db52a.jpg

https://archive.org/details/collectionofembl00withe/page/210/mode/2up

image.png.5b1d826b275edf67ef73a67f4ba7e6fc.png

And along the way, I crossed this Emblem related with THE ARCHER / Sagittarius of ... the Centaur. 😉 

https://archive.org/details/collectionofembl00withe/page/102/mode/2up?view=theater

image.png.f0e961e09d525991ff8c954425fa91d8.png

One looks like Pan, the other like a "lutin" where that type of hat worn looks like the one worn by our old friend "Oui-Oui" or a "Smurf" lol. Fools is fine. I think the two may represent a cross section of people who believe in such rumored things. Stark contrast with the empiricist who measures everything according to God's plan. I like the image because of the suggestion of Geo-metry which relates to the celestial sphere.

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3 hours ago, Allisnum2er said:

Awesome finding Rob !!! 😮

Here are the definitions of"ARTIFEX" given by wiktionary

1) Artist, Actor

2) Craftsman, Master

3) Mastermind, schemer.

And it was engraved in 1616.

image.png.28a9ec8aa96c47d49b15da94943b4bc5.png

Notice the stylized number 33 in the middle of the right page of the book .

I think that we have also the numbers 137 and 7 ( with a stylized 7)

If I am right, all the numbers add to : 222 🙂 

 

 

What a neat symbolic image. The text under it is interesting since it does reveal some things about Bacon's politics.

A "swaine" is a peasant man. The etymology of the word comes from the old English "swan" (not pronounced swan). The text speaks of cutting the serpent in "twaine", that is to say, in two. If we look at the night sky one can cut the serpent (Draco) in two from the position of the Big Dipper (Ursa Major) and find that it points to the swan. That's an interesting parallel.

"With hysope caught" has Biblical connotations. Hysop is a plant that is symbolic of purification of the soul. "Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean" In Psalm 51-7.

The peasant is awestruck by the fact that God has placed a poison in the serpent that has the powers of healing (a scientific observation). Of course, the act requires one kills the serpent to get the God given essence.

This is compared to the cunning of the King who can make noble laws out of what seems like barbarous actions. The infection spoken of is likely internal rebellion. We know this from the expression "to cut the head of the snake" when we are speaking of neutering something. Bacon wrote quite a bit about how to suppress rebellion. One of the things he suggested was imperative is that the "swaine" be offered new territory in which they could better themselves rather than sit back home and eye all that the wealthy ruling class had amassed while plotting to better their lot.

Bacon's ideas about colonization suggest that he was using this angle to convince the King that he needed to have expansionary ambitions or else eventually face mobs of discontented peasants with no ability to own house or home. In a way we are kind of right back there hoping to expand into space these days.

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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2 hours ago, Allisnum2er said:

Hi CJ,

Indeed, I noticed it, but I knew that you would be the best suited to find the hidden meaning of this part, as I am not an expert in Astronomy and Geometry. 😊

Regarding the two "men" being trampled on by the surveyor,  I have had the same idea as you with "Pan" but, as an afterthought, it reminded me certain Emblems and I think that it could be a reference to Fools.

"Lord, what fools these mortals be !"

IMG_20231212_195024.jpg.7b49f0c88c243c2e31a21d1b00b2c797.jpg

IMG_20231212_195242.jpg.528a03a493ec7728805a2a0b738db52a.jpg

https://archive.org/details/collectionofembl00withe/page/210/mode/2up

image.png.5b1d826b275edf67ef73a67f4ba7e6fc.png

And along the way, I crossed this Emblem related with THE ARCHER / Sagittarius of ... the Centaur. 😉 

https://archive.org/details/collectionofembl00withe/page/102/mode/2up?view=theater

image.png.f0e961e09d525991ff8c954425fa91d8.png

The representation of the celestial sphere is showing an equator as if we are seeing it head on in perspective and one as if we are seeing it from an angle above. The GC alignment shown is a latitude line, surprisingly. It doesn't look like that when we see the image head on. It is shown passing through Cassiopeia, the sitting queen. If we are to estimate the right ascension suggested it might be somewhere around 17 degrees E of Greenwich. That would make it abound 20 degrees from Paris, but I doubt this value is important. One of the ideas about the Novas coming and going  is that it was evidence of Elizabeth rising and taking her place in the stars. The first occasion of the Nova in the 1570s was in Cassiopeia. Elizabeth died in 1603, allowing some to suggest that she had ascended when the final Nova appeared in 1604. It's the sort of this you'd tell a populace who was susceptible to accepting such stories. There's ample evidence that Bacon thought it was useful to use these sort of beliefs in the esoteric, and religion, to rally the masses and place the monarchy in the best light possible.

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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On 12/11/2023 at 1:17 PM, RoyalCraftiness said:

The native heathens never had a chance.

I've not avoided this topic, just put it off until I can have a moment to respond.

CJ, I have received every point you made about Bacon and his ideas about the New Atlantis "Empire".

400 years ago England was behind the American curve. Look at a map and the United States (157/287 cipher) today and it is a slice of the Americas. Good thing France agreed to the Louisiana Purchase! That was a huge deal for we who live in the US.

OK, I have worked through this many years ago, yet I still think about it. Bacon was a voice in how to take over available land. Indigenous people were not like Europeans. For his day, he was more compassionate than many, but it was a conquest and Spain was way ahead in territory.

In my family, our "Hale" line is documented to Jamestown around when the First Folio was printed. One of two George Hale's is our ancestor, still being figured out. No matter which one it was, within a generation or two the tree includes two native American women who were from different tribes but still Powhatan in the 1600's.

Keep in mind, Jamestown was a town of men for a long time. When natives would show up watching from hill tops and across open expanses, the English men had eyes open for pretty naked brown skinned women. Whatever naked was to them.

Powhatan men had to wonder where the English women were, and what they looked like.

If you ever built a Family Tree, you see how the Bacon binary math works and in a few generations you have thousands of relatives. By the 1700's there was so much Powhatan blood in English families that when the destruction of their culture was tragic and a shame, their blood (DNA) was and is still alive and well in their home land. Diluted a bit, but will never be gone.

True, "The native heathens never had a chance." I'd like to think it would be different today, but I doubt it.

They had no chance, or better said their ancient culture was over. It was shattered immediately.

It is important for me to know Bacon. The Sonnets share so much emotion about his life. And what he shares as himself also tells us where his thinking was. Fact is, the Virginia Company was very critical for the future of England and Bacon knew it, as I am sure everybody did. Spain was getting all the gold and converting all the natives to be Catholic.

I am sure much of the motivation to secure the Chesapeake Bay and east coast of the Atlantic for England was a Protestant ideology. Smith's map.

CJ, I know you are reminding us that Bacon was human, not Jesus. Even though both are born of Virgins, and bringers of Light. 😉

William Hole:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1895-1031-526

image.png.b6f9764fb2adb5e980dadd897e56250d.png

 

 

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1 hour ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I've not avoided this topic, just put it off until I can have a moment to respond.

CJ, I have received every point you made about Bacon and his ideas about the New Atlantis "Empire".

400 years ago England was behind the American curve. Look at a map and the United States (157/287 cipher) today and it is a slice of the Americas. Good thing France agreed to the Louisiana Purchase! That was a huge deal for we who live in the US.

OK, I have worked through this many years ago, yet I still think about it. Bacon was a voice in how to take over available land. Indigenous people were not like Europeans. For his day, he was more compassionate than many, but it was a conquest and Spain was way ahead in territory.

In my family, our "Hale" line is documented to Jamestown around when the First Folio was printed. One of two George Hale's is our ancestor, still being figured out. No matter which one it was, within a generation or two the tree includes two native American women who were from different tribes but still Powhatan in the 1600's.

Keep in mind, Jamestown was a town of men for a long time. When natives would show up watching from hill tops and across open expanses, the English men had eyes open for pretty naked brown skinned women. Whatever naked was to them.

Powhatan men had to wonder where the English women were, and what they looked like.

If you ever built a Family Tree, you see how the Bacon binary math works and in a few generations you have thousands of relatives. By the 1700's there was so much Powhatan blood in English families that when the destruction of their culture was tragic and a shame, their blood (DNA) was and is still alive and well in their home land. Diluted a bit, but will never be gone.

True, "The native heathens never had a chance." I'd like to think it would be different today, but I doubt it.

They had no chance, or better said their ancient culture was over. It was shattered immediately.

It is important for me to know Bacon. The Sonnets share so much emotion about his life. And what he shares as himself also tells us where his thinking was. Fact is, the Virginia Company was very critical for the future of England and Bacon knew it, as I am sure everybody did. Spain was getting all the gold and converting all the natives to be Catholic.

I am sure much of the motivation to secure the Chesapeake Bay and east coast of the Atlantic for England was a Protestant ideology. Smith's map.

CJ, I know you are reminding us that Bacon was human, not Jesus. Even though both are born of Virgins, and bringers of Light. 😉

William Hole:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/P_1895-1031-526

image.png.b6f9764fb2adb5e980dadd897e56250d.png

 

 

It's worth reading the paper I linked to. It's inciteful. He's much more Machiavellian than Christian.

It's hard to know a man from a front that he puts up for all to see. I'm surprised that Bacon had no desire to have churches or clergymen in his colonies. He preferred not to favor religion, and to then allow freedom of religion. That is what makes the fewest enemies and for the easiest conquests. 

Bacon considered North Americas to be empty even if it wasn't. Conquest is what conferred to England its right to do what it wanted to the conquered. Once conquered there is not even a question of what is appropriate. This is not how we think of things today. What the monarch decided was your fate was his generous gift to you. He was there in his throne seat because his long line of ancestors had paved the way for you, presumably. You owed them everything. For the natives the gift was ultimately very little. 

I have a many times great grandfather on my grandmother's side who was an adopted native boy. He was given a French name and surname. His mother was native and had been taken into marriage by the commander of the French fort at Pentagouet (now Maine).  He took his name.  It's part of my story.

It's all part of our evolution. We will not end up being anything like what we started off as. I could not tell you what I truly am. I don't really identify with any faction.  I do recognize a long lost relationship to my pre fungal ancestors in the primordial sludge.

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