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2 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Do you think Bacon was ideologically aligned with these Indian Killers?

Here are Bacon's words from "Of Plantations" (XXXIII):

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Works_of_Francis_Bacon/Volume_1/Essays/Of_Plantations

...If you plant where savages are, do not only entertain them with trifles and gingles, but use them justly and graciously, with sufficient guard nevertheless; and do not win their favour by helping them to invade their enemies, but for their defence it is not amiss: and send oft of them over to the country that plants, that they may see a better condition than their own, and commend it when they return. When the plantation grows to strength, then it is time to plant with women as well as with men; that the plantation may spread into generations, and not be ever pieced from without.

 

image.png.38904870dd7fdbeaf43e1a9077dccff5.png

Bacon's words, to me, do not align with "Indian Killers." However, his words do not align with modern thinking either. Yet in his day he may have been pretty modern to the Churches. Modern thinking even when I was a kid was a lot different than today. 400 years ago I am sure we would all be shocked by the norm, even in best situations.

2 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

...It's unclear to me what Bacon thought of this business. He is said to have defended King James' treatment of the natives in New England. Roger William's colony at Rhode Island (1636), shown at the bottom of the chart, was a place where the practice of "civilizing" natives was not condoned. Williams was critical of Bacon for  having defended James' treatment of natives. It wasn't just the "salvages" either.  There has been clear lines in the sand with Puritans also. Williams' colony was open and religiously tolerant (almost unique). In many other regards Williams has a lot of regard for Bacon's use of reason.

Roger Williams sounds pretty cool. Separation of Church and State makes sense to me. And he knew Bacon according to this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/books/review/roger-williams.html

...The book is about the genesis of the idea of separation of church and state and the linkage between freedom of religion and freedom itself. Therefore it goes into detail about the influence Edward Coke and Francis Bacon had on Williams. Coke was the greatest jurist in English history, the man who ruled “the house of every man is as his castle,” and the leader of parliamentary opposition to the expansion of royal power. He was also Williams’s mentor. Bacon, the father of the scientific method and whom Williams also knew personally, had a comparable impact on how Williams thought, on how he looked for evidence.

 

EDIT: Further dialog on Williams and Bacon's possible influence:

https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2012/10/25/roger-williams-his-own/

 

 

 

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I guess I am on a stroll down the "Roger Williams" path for a little while tonight. looking for Bacon connections, but also just strollin' along. I came across the following in a SirBacon.org submission by R.E. Kretz I forget about (pages 5 and 6).

https://sirbacon.org/downloads/Camelot.pdf

...Once Elizabeth assumed the throne as the “Virgin Queen”, it was a relatively easy astrological matter to sell her on the idea that as Cassiopeia was the “Virgin Queen of Heaven” she was the “Virgin Queen on Earth”, reflecting the axiom “as above, so below”, and that Cygnus, as Apollo, over North America, in concert with the Arthurian legend connection and voyages of St. Brendan and Prince Madoc, gave England, or as Dee coined it, “the British Empire”, the right to colonize and expand its realm. Thus, Dee was able to gain the support of the crown and financial backing for his endeavor. A simple “slight of mind”. How do we know this? Rhode Island!

In a letter to King Francis I of France in 1524, Giovanni Verrazano called the harbor at the mouth of Narragansett Bay “Refugio”. Verrazano’s cartographer on the 1524 voyage, Viscount Maggiolo, included Refugio on his map of 1527. John Dee renamed the bay and river flowing into it described by Verrazano the John Dee Bay and Dee River in 1583. It wasn’t until 1634 that the bay was renamed Narragansett. If you recall, one form of Merlin’s either prison or grave could have been a magic tower. According to Jim Egan in The John Dee Tower of 1583: A Renaissance Building in Newport, Rhode Island, Dee also had the Newport Tower, that functions as a Horologium, constructed in 1583. Newport is a town Camelot in southeastern Wales adjacent to Caerleon where Dee’s ancestors were from.

In 1637, a year after the founding of Providence, Roger Williams in a letter to John Winthrop, a Puritan lawyer and Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, refers to “…Aquidnetick called by us Rode Island …”. In 1644 the name of Aquidneck was officially changed to “Rhod Iland” (Rhode Island or the Isle of Rhodes). The name of the island comes from the ancient Greek Rhódon (rose), and is sometimes called the island of roses. Rhodes is famous for the Colossus of Rhodes, a statue of the Greek sun god Helios, later known as Apollo, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. According to myth, Helios was a Titan, a primordial god, who drove a chariot daily from east to west across the sky and sailed around the northerly stream of Ocean each night in a huge cup, a route similar to that taken by European explorers to the New World. In Pindar's ode, the island was said to be born of the union of Helios and the nymph Rhodos, the goddess and personification of the island and Helios’ wife. According to Diodorus Siculus, one their three sons, Actis, travelled to Egypt where he built the city of Heliopolis and taught the Egyptians astrology. The statue of Colossus collapsed during an earthquake in 226 BC. The Colossus of Rhodes inspired French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi designer of Statue of Liberty, who made his first sketches of the statue while visiting the artist John LaFarge at his studio in Newport, Rhode Island. The Isle of Rhodes is also home to the Acropolis of Rhodes with the Temple of Pythian Apollo and an ancient theatre and stadium. Furthermore, Dee conceived the idea of the Rhode Island symbol as the a fouled anchor with the word “hope”, known as the “anchor of hope”, based on his Monas Hieroglyphica of 1564. (see John Dee, Governor Benedict Arnold, and the Anchor of Hope by Jim Egan). Naming the colony “Rhode Island” may well have been Dee’s idea. It would have played into his “slight of mind” deception whereby he has people thinking it’s named after the Isle of Rhodes when in actuality it’s named for his ancestors, Rhodri ap Merfyn and Merlin. A further idea is that the double “A", or “AA”, may be another of Dee’s “slights of mind” and in a different interpretation may represent the letter “M” for “Merlin”.

 

 

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2 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Do you think Bacon was ideologically aligned with these Indian Killers? The fawning in the block of text does show how abjectly immoral these men were and what ignoble piety guided them. They were not in the business of civilizing anyone unless that means killing native Catholic coverts (at this time there was already a well established amicable relationship between the natives and the French). They were proud Protestant ethnic cleansers and that very thing was repeatedly displayed in British colonial history in these parts and in Nova Scotia.  It's unclear to me what Bacon thought of this business. He is said to have defended King James' treatment of the natives in New England. Roger William's colony at Rhode Island (1636), shown at the bottom of the chart, was a place where the practice of "civilizing" natives was not condoned. Williams was critical of Bacon for  having defended James' treatment of natives. It wasn't just the "salvages" either.  There has been clear lines in the sand with Puritans also. Williams' colony was open and religiously tolerant (almost unique). In many other regards Williams has a lot of regard for Bacon's use of reason.

One thing that stands out about the Freemasons in Colonial NA is that they had a certain blood lust. Whatever was discussed in their regimental lodges was open to extreme violence. Again. I'm nor sure that this is in Bacon's ideology. Similarly, it doesn't align with any Rosicrucian values that I know of (think of non interference). King James was definitely that  type of brute, though, having burned many a man's wife to spite them.

Whatever we think of the NA project. It was not an enlightened one in our modern values. It was one to raise the fortunes of England, and probably of the Anglican vision of Holy Royal Arch.

There are a lot of men who have put Bacon on a pedestal since that  time, but it is unclear to me if he would have reciprocated.

There's a neat TTT top left acrostic to the text. 

I'd consider what Great Circle Line might also being referenced in the positioning of the colonies of the New Jerusalem. The lines seem to be referring to alignments, and to the actions as aligning with good Christian values.

Were place names given so that their first letters would form a word suggestion when aligned? That sounds like a fishing expedition. It couldn't realistically have occurred like that.

What does the 40 degree heading produce?

spacer.png

If we draw a circle centered at the main Compass Rose here that goes through the center of the two minor CRs above (points M,P at 60 degrees from the center on a hexagon) we can identify the intercepts with the angles of 33, 40 and 67 degrees. 33 degrees defines the right edge of the image block. 67 defines the horizontal bottom. 40 degrees intercepts the vertical at the corner of the block of text below the image (point I). 

The composition of the page layout appears to be vey nearly exploiting these values.

Point N on the hexagon is closely placed near Oxford if that has any appeal.

An original Acception group (free and accepted Masons not bound to the operative structures in Scotland) in London was said to exist and be composed of 7 members. The central point in a hexagon could be seen as that held by the most influential of the members. There many ways one can use this sort of thing to suggest a theory around Bacon, Devere and/or others as patrons.

On the appearance of the "brighter bee", the Bee is the symbolic carrier of the number 6. It has six legs, and it's comb structure is based in hexagonal geometry.  It symbolizes the Protestant work ethic and, perhaps most importantly, the resurrection which is compared to the work of love of the bee in getting golden honey from the flour (of life) in Christianity.

Interesting image frame.

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11 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I guess I am on a stroll down the "Roger Williams" path for a little while tonight. looking for Bacon connections, but also just strollin' along. I came across the following in a SirBacon.org submission by R.E. Kretz I forget about (pages 5 and 6).

https://sirbacon.org/downloads/Camelot.pdf

...Once Elizabeth assumed the throne as the “Virgin Queen”, it was a relatively easy astrological matter to sell her on the idea that as Cassiopeia was the “Virgin Queen of Heaven” she was the “Virgin Queen on Earth”, reflecting the axiom “as above, so below”, and that Cygnus, as Apollo, over North America, in concert with the Arthurian legend connection and voyages of St. Brendan and Prince Madoc, gave England, or as Dee coined it, “the British Empire”, the right to colonize and expand its realm. Thus, Dee was able to gain the support of the crown and financial backing for his endeavor. A simple “slight of mind”. How do we know this? Rhode Island!

In a letter to King Francis I of France in 1524, Giovanni Verrazano called the harbor at the mouth of Narragansett Bay “Refugio”. Verrazano’s cartographer on the 1524 voyage, Viscount Maggiolo, included Refugio on his map of 1527. John Dee renamed the bay and river flowing into it described by Verrazano the John Dee Bay and Dee River in 1583. It wasn’t until 1634 that the bay was renamed Narragansett. If you recall, one form of Merlin’s either prison or grave could have been a magic tower. According to Jim Egan in The John Dee Tower of 1583: A Renaissance Building in Newport, Rhode Island, Dee also had the Newport Tower, that functions as a Horologium, constructed in 1583. Newport is a town Camelot in southeastern Wales adjacent to Caerleon where Dee’s ancestors were from.

In 1637, a year after the founding of Providence, Roger Williams in a letter to John Winthrop, a Puritan lawyer and Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, refers to “…Aquidnetick called by us Rode Island …”. In 1644 the name of Aquidneck was officially changed to “Rhod Iland” (Rhode Island or the Isle of Rhodes). The name of the island comes from the ancient Greek Rhódon (rose), and is sometimes called the island of roses. Rhodes is famous for the Colossus of Rhodes, a statue of the Greek sun god Helios, later known as Apollo, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world. According to myth, Helios was a Titan, a primordial god, who drove a chariot daily from east to west across the sky and sailed around the northerly stream of Ocean each night in a huge cup, a route similar to that taken by European explorers to the New World. In Pindar's ode, the island was said to be born of the union of Helios and the nymph Rhodos, the goddess and personification of the island and Helios’ wife. According to Diodorus Siculus, one their three sons, Actis, travelled to Egypt where he built the city of Heliopolis and taught the Egyptians astrology. The statue of Colossus collapsed during an earthquake in 226 BC. The Colossus of Rhodes inspired French sculptor Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi designer of Statue of Liberty, who made his first sketches of the statue while visiting the artist John LaFarge at his studio in Newport, Rhode Island. The Isle of Rhodes is also home to the Acropolis of Rhodes with the Temple of Pythian Apollo and an ancient theatre and stadium. Furthermore, Dee conceived the idea of the Rhode Island symbol as the a fouled anchor with the word “hope”, known as the “anchor of hope”, based on his Monas Hieroglyphica of 1564. (see John Dee, Governor Benedict Arnold, and the Anchor of Hope by Jim Egan). Naming the colony “Rhode Island” may well have been Dee’s idea. It would have played into his “slight of mind” deception whereby he has people thinking it’s named after the Isle of Rhodes when in actuality it’s named for his ancestors, Rhodri ap Merfyn and Merlin. A further idea is that the double “A", or “AA”, may be another of Dee’s “slights of mind” and in a different interpretation may represent the letter “M” for “Merlin”.

 

 

 

The John Dee Tower of 1583
A renaissance building in Newport, Rhode Island

http://www.newporttowermuseum.com/resources/1-The-History-of-the-John-Dee-Tower.pdf

 

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22 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

spacer.png

If we draw a circle centered at the main Compass Rose here that goes through the center of the two minor CRs above (points M,P at 60 degrees from the center on a hexagon) we can identify the intercepts with the angles of 33, 40 and 67 degrees. 33 degrees defines the right edge of the image block. 67 defines the horizontal bottom. 40 degrees intercepts the vertical at the corner of the block of text below the image (point I). 

The composition of the page layout appears to be vey nearly exploiting these values.

Point N on the hexagon is closely placed near Oxford if that has any appeal.

An original Acception group (free and accepted Masons not bound to the operative structures in Scotland) in London was said to exist and be composed of 7 members. The central point in a hexagon could be seen as that held by the most influential of the members. There many ways one can use this sort of thing to suggest a theory around Bacon, Devere and/or others as patrons.

On the appearance of the "brighter bee", the Bee is the symbolic carrier of the number 6. It has six legs, and it's comb structure is based in hexagonal geometry.  It symbolizes the Protestant work ethic and, perhaps most importantly, the resurrection which is compared to the work of love of the bee in getting golden honey from the flour (of life) in Christianity.

Interesting image frame.

spacer.png

Previously not represented was the angle of 100 degrees (33+67). The line showing it (orange) projects to the center jewel of the crown in the Royal coat of arms here it intercepts the circle. The circle joins that point to the crown atop the lion, the foot of the leopard, and the point B1 on the compass tip which denotes the O starting position in the measurement scale.

I've also taken the time to develop the relationship of the Compass Rose centers (O, M and P). Centers at each going through the other two produces the Vesica (WMOP). The line WMN projects through the rooster in the other coat of arms. This line also intercepts the 40 degree line (yellow) at Z. This produces a (40, 60, 80) triangle which has the neat feature of having a ship portrayed within it (to guide it?).  The ship portrayed is also conveniently positioned on the declination which is Cygnus' if we use the charts reference marks. This triangle is mathematically similar to the Summer Triangle asterism. This turns out to be a construction method for it, one that I have not discovered previously. The essential angle here is 40 degrees which is the hard angle of the nonagon.

The presence of the (40, 60, 80) triangle means there is a Compass and Square arrangement in this composition that one could position accordingly (as I have previously showed with the Droeshout portrait composition).

Regarding the latitude and longitude references, the left edge  of the chart corresponds to 314 W and change. That is coincidentally suggestive of Pi (3.14 and change).  Pi is, of course, the constant of circles.

The top most latitude displayed on this chart is 44.5 and change. This is quite interestingly Oak Island's latitude (44.51). We could even point out that the Unicorn here has it's horn pointing to just below that latitude. By doing so we could draw a link between Herge's treatment of the "Secret of the Unicorn" in which he tackles the TT (20) and TTTT (40) mystery much later on. 

There is also a line here going through NP on which was drawn the tilted squiggle on the bottom left corner of the chart.

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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3 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

WOW!!!!! 🙂

I plan to go see the Dee Tower someday.

Keep in mind that there is no John Dee Tower in Newport Rhode Island. This is a theory. It is promoted mainly by one man who you are listening to in that clip. What he presents is not known to be factual. Historians have no answer for this structure;  therefore, it has allowed many to develop their pet theories about it. The typical alt-history candidates (Templars, Vikings, Henry Sinclair...) have all had claimed links to it. You can be forgiven for falling prey to his convictions, because he speaks as if he is dealing in knowns, and that has the ability to convince. This theory is his bias.

Until we know we do not know. If he is right he has guessed right, and that is not something we can confirm via the historical record at this time. If we cannot confirm then we must accept to say that we do not know, humbly.

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49 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Keep in mind that there is no John Dee Tower in Newport Rhode Island. This is a theory. It is promoted mainly by one man who you are listening to in that clip. What he presents is not known to be factual. Historians have no answer for this structure;  therefore, it has allowed many to develop their pet theories about it. The typical alt-history candidates (Templars, Vikings, Henry Sinclair...) have all had claimed links to it. You can be forgiven for falling prey to his convictions, because he speaks as if he is dealing in knowns, and that has the ability to convince. This theory is his bias.

The river was named "Dee" on an old map or something? The Dee concept keeps coming up not only with Jim Egan in the video. Just because it is a theory does not mean it is wrong.

57 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Until we know we do not know. If he is right he has guessed right, and that is not something we can confirm via the historical record at this time. If we cannot confirm then we must accept to say that we do not know, humbly.

I do not know. I love the idea of a John Dee Tower in the US. What can I say.

So now there is yet another mystery for someone to solve. I swear Life on Earth provides infinite and eternal Treasure Hunts for real seekers who need, or at least would benefit from a passion.

If Dee did not design this tower, whoever did had the same skills as Dee. But as we know, those skills go back a long time.

Dee taught me this time number thingy that seems to work for connecting past and future:

<-- 1881 -->

🙂

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

This is a theory. It is promoted mainly by one man who you are listening to in that clip.

I think this guy is cool! He may be on to something. Vikings, Templars, someone built this tower. Egan has a great argument for Dee as the architect, or creator anyway. I just read a fun article about Jim Egan and his passion (linked below). Hey, I get it! Its possible he did figure out the Newport Tower story and he knows it. Dee might have a way of sharing the past. I totally get it! 😉

https://www.newportri.com/story/lifestyle/magazine/newportlife/2019/07/15/true-story-behind-newport-landmark/4579786007/

Screen capture of the beginning of the article:
image.png.0d7915b4d7b3796cce4024d7c0ca9e8a.png

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2 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

The river was named "Dee" on an old map or something? The Dee concept keeps coming up not only with Jim Egan in the video. Just because it is a theory does not mean it is wrong.

I do not know. I love the idea of a John Dee Tower in the US. What can I say.

So now there is yet another mystery for someone to solve. I swear Life on Earth provides infinite and eternal Treasure Hunts for real seekers who need, or at least would benefit from a passion.

If Dee did not design this tower, whoever did had the same skills as Dee. But as we know, those skills go back a long time.

Dee taught me this time number thingy that seems to work for connecting past and future:

<-- 1881 -->

🙂

 

 

 

 

Taking facts and writing a narrative with them is not allowed in the discipline practiced by Historians. I know that sounds strange, because entertainment and the art of writing literature does not respect that.  Typically, we get exposed to things that are very interesting, because that is exactly what recruits best. Entertainers and book writers benefit from having an interested audience. I found it interesting when I watched it. That shouldn't work to convince me.

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13 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

The river was named "Dee" on an old map or something? The Dee concept keeps coming up not only with Jim Egan in the video. Just because it is a theory does not mean it is wrong.

I do not know. I love the idea of a John Dee Tower in the US. What can I say.

So now there is yet another mystery for someone to solve. I swear Life on Earth provides infinite and eternal Treasure Hunts for real seekers who need, or at least would benefit from a passion.

If Dee did not design this tower, whoever did had the same skills as Dee. But as we know, those skills go back a long time.

Dee taught me this time number thingy that seems to work for connecting past and future:

<-- 1881 -->

🙂

 

 

 

 

I think it is worth questioning everything he says. Take for example the suggestion that there is an alignment of the Sun on the Winter solstice which is visible through the windows in the tower. If we refer to the SunCalc page SunCalc - sunrise, sunset, shadow length, solar eclipse, sun position, sun phase, sun height, sun calculator, sun movement, map, sunlight phases, elevation, Photovoltaic system, Photovoltaic we can see that for a good part of the midday on the 21st of Dec. the Sun is going to be around 25 degree declination- on a pretty flat path.  All his claim really means is that if one views through the bottom of one window through any part of the opposing one, AND that declination is covered in that range of window heights to the South, one can position himself somewhere behind the tower (in line) to view the Sun. It will work only depending on where you place yourself in the landscape behind the windows, but it will work. This to me is not only unsurprising, it's not an indication that any sort of special astronomical knowledge is required at all. It just means that the windows were tall enough to allow a 25 degree look.

As for the camera obscura suggestion, he has no small aperture. He suggests one could have been made by blocking off the window. Such a camera could be made anywhere. He is bringing it there to help to "wow" people with the explanation of it. He also suggests the 2:1 proportion in height for the structure which is arbitrary when there is no proof of what was there.

He does say that the structure looks over Jamestown, Rhode Island. This isn't a place name that relates to King James of Scotland, BTW. Jamestown, Rhode Island - Wikipedia The description here states that the English were preceded in this area, most famously by the Dutch. New York was previously New Amsterdam, as you know. There is a windmill portrayed on this page that is tower like, for what that is worth.

His portrayal reminds me of so many we see on the internet of alt-history today. It's sensationalizing what isn't known but "might be" possible. His targeted audience is clearly given when he starts asking about how many in the audience are of English decent or speak English in "NEW ENGLAND". This is trying to make the sell from a point of view that "this is your history". Identifying with the interesting story he proposes does help to recruit.

Your own desire to have Dee involved is perhaps helping you to want to believe.  Who really plays defense against such things? We are at the mercy of creative writers. When they dabble in science they are treading in an area where they can be confronted and tested. The suggestion that the structure was a monument to time keeping is not defendable by what he presents, imo.  

In the end we do not know who built that structure.

 

 

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21 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

spacer.png

Previously not represented was the angle of 100 degrees (33+67). The line showing it (orange) projects to the center jewel of the crown in the Royal coat of arms here it intercepts the circle. The circle joins that point to the crown atop the lion, the foot of the leopard, and the point B1 on the compass tip which denotes the O starting position in the measurement scale.

I've also taken the time to develop the relationship of the Compass Rose centers (O, M and P). Centers at each going through the other two produces the Vesica (WMOP). The line WMN projects through the rooster in the other coat of arms. This line also intercepts the 40 degree line (yellow) at Z. This produces a (40, 60, 80) triangle which has the neat feature of having a ship portrayed within it (to guide it?).  The ship portrayed is also conveniently positioned on the declination which is Cygnus' if we use the charts reference marks. This triangle is mathematically similar to the Summer Triangle asterism. This turns out to be a construction method for it, one that I have not discovered previously. The essential angle here is 40 degrees which is the hard angle of the nonagon.

The presence of the (40, 60, 80) triangle means there is a Compass and Square arrangement in this composition that one could position accordingly (as I have previously showed with the Droeshout portrait composition).

Regarding the latitude and longitude references, the left edge  of the chart corresponds to 314 W and change. That is coincidentally suggestive of Pi (3.14 and change).  Pi is, of course, the constant of circles.

The top most latitude displayed on this chart is 44.5 and change. This is quite interestingly Oak Island's latitude (44.51). We could even point out that the Unicorn here has it's horn pointing to just below that latitude. By doing so we could draw a link between Herge's treatment of the "Secret of the Unicorn" in which he tackles the TT (20) and TTTT (40) mystery much later on. 

There is also a line here going through NP on which was drawn the tilted squiggle on the bottom left corner of the chart.

Based on the positioning of the (40,60,80) triangle we can orient the compass and square (red) and the perfect square ashlar (green) that surrounds it as seen here:

spacer.png

A few interesting things come out of this. If we use the scale of leagues given, the square in green has a side of 3 units of that compass opening. This may or may not be surprising if the point was to have some symbolic Christianized representation or layout. The inclination of the side of the square is closer to 66 degrees than 67 degress. It's possible that 33.3 ,66.6 and 99.9 were used to inform the composition (placement of various arbitrary elements) of the image in the planning stage. The block containing the image and text seem to suggest it.

The baseline of the square does project to the top of the compass open to 10 leagues. It is unclear what base length unit we should be taking here since there was a predisposition to use either the Spanish or the French league in cartography. The French league is 3 nautical miles (3x 1.15 land miles). The Spanish one is 2.64 miles. One could imagine that a scale of ten leagues shown with an open compass may be evocative of the 27 units which Masonry might assign to the symbolic side length of the square or one that is perhaps closer to 33 land miles. One can have fun imagining a near fit for such evocative numbers.

An interesting idea is that we could take 9 leagues from that scale and measure what angle it gives. That is about 42 degrees which is, interestingly, the latitude at which the scale line is placed on this chart.

There's an interesting line that I do not show here that uses the leg of the compass D1-C1 which goes to the finial on the top corner of the globe above the image of Smith.

At the end of the day, if this sort of geometry was exploited it was exploited to place what has an arbitrary quality to its placement. The main Compass Rose in this image could have been placed anywhere, for example. There may be symbolic reasons why it would be useful to have it be there that relate to the planning of the imagine. Everything in the map is carved in stone, otherwise. 

We could argue, and show, that there is predisposition for dividing things in three that involves 33. I would not be surprised if this was common. The fact that we have CR points exploiting a hexagonal arrangement is a sure sign that the navigation was is based in divisions of 3,6 and 9. 

 

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2 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

In the end we do not know who built that structure.

That's your way. But people who have a passion, whether based on Truth or Myth, are the ones who will ultimately find the Truth so everybody can know whatever.

You are phobic of ideas. You preach that being creative is not what Bacon left us. What scares me is the total apathy of the masses who could care or less about anything but their paycheck, streaming TV, and 1 or 2 and a half kids in happy easy schools.

I understand that I really need to check my eagerness to believe what I want. I'll keep an eye on myself, a little bit anyway. On the other hand, you don't care if there is any importance on who wrote Shakespeare, you poopoo it all as a waste of time. You say "historians" do this or that, yet I am not reading very much about the history of the Newport Tower by any of your type of historians. I have read some different theories going back to 1100's which adds to my curiosity. And you'd suggest these theories not exist as they might be misleading a bunch of fools? And then we'd have an old tower of rocks falling apart and nobody would care.

We have writers and story-tellers keeping history alive, and we have horrible apathy waiting for our history to die.

No matter the real history of the Dee Tower in RI, if I am ever up there I will go visit it and the museum. 🙂

 

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Just now, Light-of-Truth said:

That's your way. But people who have a passion, whether based on Truth or Myth, are the ones who will ultimately find the Truth so everybody can know whatever.

You are phobic of ideas. You preach that being creative is not what Bacon left us. What scares me is the total apathy of the masses who could care or less about anything but their paycheck, streaming TV, and 1 or 2 and a half kids in happy easy schools.

I understand that I really need to check my eagerness to believe what I want. I'll keep an eye on myself, a little bit anyway. On the other hand, you don't care if there is any importance on who wrote Shakespeare, you poopoo it all as a waste of time. You say "historians" do this or that, yet I am not reading very much about the history of the Newport Tower by any of your type of historians. I have read some different theories going back to 1100's which adds to my curiosity. And you'd suggest these theories not exist as they might be misleading a bunch of fools? And then we'd have an old tower of rocks falling apart and nobody would care.

We have writers and story-tellers keeping history alive, and we have horrible apathy waiting for our history to die.

No matter the real history of the Dee Tower in RI, if I am ever up there I will go visit it and the museum. 🙂

 

I don't know how many ways I have to say it. It is not a feather in anyone's cap to allow himself to believe in anything that pleases him. It is done out of mimetic programming if it occurs without the involvement of reason.

We have the ability to reason that we do not know things, and even that we cannot possibly know certain things. We can and should understand what knowing something entails. Knowing is not convincing ourselves or the masses of something. The latter is called a PR success.

The capitalists are another story. They simply exploit the believers in perfectly Machiavellian ways. Capitalism goes hand in hand with the existence of legions of fools. It is thriving today as the fools rediscover what it is like to be feudal serfs to the techno Lords. These Lords own the platforms that will tell the fools everything they need to know, because they will certainly not get to it by reasoning anything in great detail. They will look around them to see what ideological offerings exist and they will choose in mimetic fashion to oppose reason.  

 

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36 minutes ago, Light-of-Truth said:

That's your way. But people who have a passion, whether based on Truth or Myth, are the ones who will ultimately find the Truth so everybody can know whatever.

You are phobic of ideas. You preach that being creative is not what Bacon left us. What scares me is the total apathy of the masses who could care or less about anything but their paycheck, streaming TV, and 1 or 2 and a half kids in happy easy schools.

I understand that I really need to check my eagerness to believe what I want. I'll keep an eye on myself, a little bit anyway. On the other hand, you don't care if there is any importance on who wrote Shakespeare, you poopoo it all as a waste of time. You say "historians" do this or that, yet I am not reading very much about the history of the Newport Tower by any of your type of historians. I have read some different theories going back to 1100's which adds to my curiosity. And you'd suggest these theories not exist as they might be misleading a bunch of fools? And then we'd have an old tower of rocks falling apart and nobody would care.

We have writers and story-tellers keeping history alive, and we have horrible apathy waiting for our history to die.

No matter the real history of the Dee Tower in RI, if I am ever up there I will go visit it and the museum. 🙂

 

Well, you won't find this guy's placards in the tower, presumably.  It may benefit you more to hunt down this man's coordinates. Talking to him may illuminate you more about the breadth of what he believes that might scare you. From all appearances, he is a bit of a lone wolf.

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46 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Based on the positioning of the (40,60,80) triangle we can orient the compass and square (red) and the perfect square ashlar (green) that surrounds it as seen here:

spacer.png

A few interesting things come out of this. If we use the scale of leagues given, the square in green has a side of 3 units of that compass opening. This may or may not be surprising if the point was to have some symbolic Christianized representation or layout. The inclination of the side of the square is closer to 66 degrees than 67 degress. It's possible that 33.3 ,66.6 and 99.9 were used to inform the composition (placement of various arbitrary elements) of the image in the planning stage. The block containing the image and text seem to suggest it.

The baseline of the square does project to the top of the compass open to 10 leagues. It is unclear what base length unit we should be taking here since there was a predisposition to use either the Spanish or the French league in cartography. The French league is 3 nautical miles (3x 1.15 land miles). The Spanish one is 2.64 miles. One could imagine that a scale of ten leagues shown with an open compass may be evocative of the 27 units which Masonry might assign to the symbolic side length of the square or one that is perhaps closer to 33 land miles. One can have fun imagining a near fit for such evocative numbers.

An interesting idea is that we could take 9 leagues from that scale and measure what angle it gives. That is about 42 degrees which is, interestingly, the latitude at which the scale line is placed on this chart.

There's an interesting line that I do not show here that uses the leg of the compass D1-C1 which goes to the finial on the top corner of the globe above the image of Smith.

At the end of the day, if this sort of geometry was exploited it was exploited to place what has an arbitrary quality to its placement. The main Compass Rose in this image could have been placed anywhere, for example. There may be symbolic reasons why it would be useful to have it be there that relate to the planning of the imagine. Everything in the map is carved in stone, otherwise. 

We could argue, and show, that there is predisposition for dividing things in three that involves 33. I would not be surprised if this was common. The fact that we have CR points exploiting a hexagonal arrangement is a sure sign that the navigation was is based in divisions of 3,6 and 9. 

 

Thank you for sharing your interesting ideas CJ.

Here is another one based on your first circle and its two points at 33° and 67°.

I like the fact that the line crossing these two points crosses also the "SMITH's" Ils and points to St "JOHN" town.

image.png.b178f2ece956f5abba6b2edac56b276f.png

Correct me, but it seems that this line is at an angle of 40° to the horizontal.

Moreover, the line crosses Cape Elizabeth.

It would be a fine thing if it was a reference to Queen Elizabeth 😄.

This is in fact a reference to Elizabeth Stuart, the sister of Charles I.

But one could say that one Elizabeth may conceal another.😊

image.png.ac2453b302d9183290885b020a493bee.png

Princess Elizabeth, Queen of Bohemia and Electress Palatine

By Unknown artist
oil on panel, 1613
NPG 5529 © National Portrait Gallery, London

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

(Notice the splendid Collar of reticella worked with the Royal coat of arms.)

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image.png.b8c74f56d5551c745119c268cf9d3db8.png

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3 hours ago, Allisnum2er said:

Thank you for sharing your interesting ideas CJ.

Here is another one based on your first circle and its two points at 33° and 67°.

I like the fact that the line crossing these two points crosses also the "SMITH's" Ils and points to St "JOHN" town.

image.png.b178f2ece956f5abba6b2edac56b276f.png

Correct me, but it seems that this line is at an angle of 40° to the horizontal.

Moreover, the line crosses Cape Elizabeth.

It would be a fine thing if it was a reference to Queen Elizabeth 😄.

This is in fact a reference to Elizabeth Stuart, the sister of Charles I.

But one could say that one Elizabeth may conceal another.😊

image.png.ac2453b302d9183290885b020a493bee.png

Princess Elizabeth, Queen of Bohemia and Electress Palatine

By Unknown artist
oil on panel, 1613
NPG 5529 © National Portrait Gallery, London

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

(Notice the splendid Collar of reticella worked with the Royal coat of arms.)

Yes, that is a 40 degree angle. Where it intercepts the circle centered at M it forms another 40 degree angle with the center of the large Compass Rose.

General 2 — Captain John Smith Chesapeake Cross Markers

Any idea what this refers to? 27 Maltese Cross markers placed by Smith...Odd. 

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1 hour ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Yes, that is a 40 degree angle. Where it intercepts the circle centered at M it forms another 40 degree angle with the center of the large Compass Rose.

General 2 — Captain John Smith Chesapeake Cross Markers

Any idea what this refers to? 27 Maltese Cross markers placed by Smith...Odd. 

It is curious.

Coincidence there is an A in the center of the map?

https://www.captainjohnsmith.org/1612-map-of-virginia

image.png.8d3ceb4de79b4a1cec60a7bcaf948086.png

Here is a higher resolution map:

https://encyclopediavirginia.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/744hpr_24d5af2b9837969-scaled.jpg

 

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19 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Thanks for the link to the map.

I've examined its composition details.

spacer.png

It's showing the same sort of planning that exploits the Compass Rose position and the compass above the scale of leagues.

The A you refer to is very near Washington D.C. today

33 degrees projects to the top of the "salvage" and through the latitude of Washington D.C.

40 degrees extends to the center of the shield, 46 degrees to the Jewel in the crown.

I've drawn some of the main verticals. The verticals that involve the center of the compasses are show intersected by the horizontals which involve the Compass Rose center and the baseline of the image in the top left corner. They intersect producing a square (N-A1-E-B1). The center of the square has a vertical that bisects the figurative scroll end of the Virginia Banner. That line is intersected by the 63 degree angle which the compass above the scale of leagues is depicting in it's opening. That point in the origin point of the scroll.

Drawing circles centered at N and B1 produces a Vesica with the property that the top of it is intersected to by the line in orange which is showing an inclination of 66 degrees from horizontal. So, we do get a layout that uses 33, 40 and 66 and the angle of the open compass (63).

We can see that the coat of arms was placed to be just adjacent to the vertical coming from the compass below it.

The string on the native bowman's bow allows us to draw a line and a perpendicular to it. That perpendicular starts at E1 and intersects both the 33 degree line and the vertical from the compass at U (a point of triple coincidence used to orient the bowman symmetrically).

Regarding the square, it's side length can be determined using the scale. It is 32 leagues. It's center can be located and identified using today's maps. That location is near the mouth of the Potomac which leads to Alexandria and Washington. There's a place there called Swan's point today.

Regarding the image in the rectangle in the top left corner. We can see that there is a diagonal through it which is mirrored by the forearm of the Powhotan chief. The elbow is at the intersection with the main Compass Rose vertical. That line projects all the way to the mid point of the scale of leagues.

All in all, a very well planned image. 

It's something we might want to think of in relation to the 27 Maltese crosses on this map. The number is beyond suggestive of Masonic connections, but that may only be an unfortunate coincidence.

 

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20 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

spacer.png

Within the square I have drawn a circle. The point LB is it's most Northern location ( since the map is sideways, East pointing down on the Compass Rose). Drawing a pentagon from LB produces something of value. Point F atop the compass goes through the center of the pentagon/5 pointed star (yellow line) and bisects one of the points of the star. The intersection I have noted with a small white circle. It is near Fredericksburg today, I believe. Point LB is today Baltimore in Maryland at that latitude (38.25N), a catholic colony that was set up by the first Lord Baltimore who also settled the Newfoundland colony at Avalon.

I've put a point and a larger circle above the A which you've suggested is near the center of the image. This is very near the correct latitude for Washington, D.C. It may be nearer Alexandria, VA. It's hard to say because it's not that easy to read the latitude reference marks on the edge of the page. The position of Washington D.C. is possibly on that 33 degree inclination line.

Anyway, it' been a fun exercise in trying to identify locations on that map using Google Earth. The position of the mouth of the main rivers off of Chesapeake Bay seem to be spot on, suggesting that they nailed latitude down solidly.

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6 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

The point LB is it's most Northern location ( since the map is sideways, East pointing down on the Compass Rose).

Being familiar with that part of Virginia and the Chesapeake Bay most of my entire life, being sideways the map really through me off. I studied it visually, looking for names I might recognize, and of course keeping an eye for the 27 crosses, but never got my bearings.

I'll try again after seeing your version of the map. Washington DC in the middle of John Smith's map marked with an upper case A is fun for me. It's from 1612, I think. That was a long time before there was a geometrically laid out big city there. 😉

image.png.fe506689d23d8c14eddbeb296e26badf.png

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1 hour ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Being familiar with that part of Virginia and the Chesapeake Bay most of my entire life, being sideways the map really through me off. I studied it visually, looking for names I might recognize, and of course keeping an eye for the 27 crosses, but never got my bearings.

I'll try again after seeing your version of the map. Washington DC in the middle of John Smith's map marked with an upper case A is fun for me. It's from 1612, I think. That was a long time before there was a geometrically laid out big city there. 😉

image.png.fe506689d23d8c14eddbeb296e26badf.png

spacer.png

I've circled some of the obvious features we can use to identify the area. The Potomac is identified by name. So is the Patuxent. The village of Nacotchtank is locatable. The tribe's name is the basis for the later name Anacostia of the river which flows into the Potomac. The Nacotchtank lived on the East side of the river in the general area of present day Washington, D.C. (it is said in the early descriptions). To locate Washington we'd have to have an indication of where the Anacostia meets the Potomac. I don't really see that. It is somewhere to the right of that A.

The map must be earlier than the date mentioned on it (1692). By 1692 there had already been a settlement at Baltimore.

I like that the this meshes very well with the Great Circle line that goes from Alexandria/Washington to Alexandria, Egypt through the Avalon Peninsula and the Mahone Bay point at Hobson's Nose.

It's worth reading about Lord Baltimore, 1st and 2nd on Wikipedia. The 1st knew the Earl of Oxford well, and he named his son Cecilius in honor of Sir Robert Cecil. Where Bacon never traveled to the New World, the 2nd Lord Baltimore did, and he seems to have focused colonization efforts in the same two areas where Bacon had participated in earlier failed attempts. Lord Baltimore was a closet Catholic. That did not seem to matter much until King Charles took the throne. There is no indication of John Smith's religious leanings as far I can tell. He did fight in campaigns for the Dutch in the colonies, so that would seem to suggest he could have been Protestant. New Amsterdam was mainly a colony of the Calvinist Dutch.  Maryland was first intended to be a Catholic colony as you probably know. That did not last.

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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10 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Being familiar with that part of Virginia and the Chesapeake Bay most of my entire life, being sideways the map really through me off. I studied it visually, looking for names I might recognize, and of course keeping an eye for the 27 crosses, but never got my bearings.

I'll try again after seeing your version of the map. Washington DC in the middle of John Smith's map marked with an upper case A is fun for me. It's from 1612, I think. That was a long time before there was a geometrically laid out big city there. 😉

image.png.fe506689d23d8c14eddbeb296e26badf.png

spacer.png

It's possible to construct a land approximation here that shows a square angled triangle that cuts the A in two. It does make one wonder if the entire map was presented sideways in order to have this area of interest sit this way.

After reading a bit about the Nacotchtank, I noticed that the place was said to have had many trading places. On this map there is a trading house pictured to the right of the A. That may very well be a good approximation for Washington D.C.

If we considered this to be like a Pyramid then we may imagine a pyramidion with an all-seeing eye suggestion atop. We could, in fact consider the entire triangle to be that pyramidion.  There is nothing to have stopped Masonic planners from having considered a map like this later and latched on to things they liked that would satisfy existing symbolism.

The much older symbol of the square angled triangle for the Greeks was the asterism called the Mytre of St Peter. It's symbolically associated ground point location was Alexandria, Egypt. This could have served as a guide for the visualizing of a Great Circle division of the globe. spacer.png

This is an existing Google Earth overlay of the Great Circle Line that originates at Alexandria, Egypt and goes through the Mahone Bay point at Nova Scotia at (44.4N, 66.6W of Paris). This line definitely goes right through the territory of the Nacotchtank near Washington/Alexandria. The only reason I think it matters is that I feel Bacon knew from Geo-metry that the globe could be divided into longitude sections of 33.3 and 66.6 from Jerusalem involving Paris and the Mahone Bay point. To go beyond the NS point appears ro have used Plato's divided line definition which introduces the golden ratio to the mix.

For whatever reason the division by 3 seems to have interested all these early English Christian explorers. The use of 40 as a guide echoes the use of 40 as a number symbol all over the Bible where it is the symbol of a time of great change or transformation. It's unclear to me if this was something that was originated by Bacon as an Idea. He could have, but he could have also just employed existing ideas like others seem to be doing.

Edited by RoyalCraftiness
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30 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

spacer.png

It's possible to construct a land approximation here that shows a square angled triangle that cuts the A in two. It does make one wonder if the entire map was presented sideways in order to have this area of interest sit this way.

After reading a bit about the Nacotchtank, I noticed that the place was said to have had many trading places. On this map there is a trading house pictured to the right of the A. That may very well be a good approximation for Washington D.C.

If we considered this to be like a Pyramid then we may imagine a pyramidion with an all-seeing eye suggestion atop. We could, in fact consider the entire triangle to be that pyramidion.  There is nothing to have stopped Masonic planners from having considered a map like this later and latched on to things they liked that would satisfy existing symbolism.

The much older symbol of the square angled triangle for the Greeks was the asterism called the Mytre of St Peter. It's symbolically associated ground point location was Alexandria, Egypt. This could have served as a guide for the visualizing of a Great Circle division of the globe. spacer.png

This is an existing Google Earth overlay of the Great Circle Line that originates at Alexandria, Egypt and goes through the Mahone Bay point at Nova Scotia at (44.4N, 66.6W of Paris). This line definitely goes right through the territory of the Nacotchtank near Washington/Alexandria. The only reason I think it matters is that I feel Bacon knew from Geo-metry that the globe could be divided into longitude sections of 33.3 and 66.6 from Jerusalem involving Paris and the Mahone Bay point. To go beyond the NS point appears ro have used Plato's divided line definition which introduces the golden ratio to the mix.

For whatever reason the division by 3 seems to have interested all these early English Christian explorers. The use of 40 as a guide echoes the use of 40 as a number symbol all over the Bible where it is the symbol of a time of great change or transformation. It's unclear to me if this was something that was originated by Bacon as an Idea. He could have, but he could have also just employed existing ideas like others seem to be doing.

I might as well add that the triangle that is made atop the letter A (taken as a pyramid symbol?) in that image sits on the 30 degree inclination line.  If one uses that as a celestial declination suggestion then the one can suggest that the figure of the bow man is mirroring the constellation of Sagittarius at that declination (the bow man).  Also of note is that this inclination is the heading of the Great Circle I refer to. 30.1 degrees North of East, more precisely. 30 degrees is also the traditional depiction of tilt of the Northern Cross in Cygnus. It is more interesting that the top of that A is on the GC line WHILE being in the center of this image in a square that contains a land triangle containing a location that will be used by future Freemasons as a symbolic place.  One has to almost ask: why Washington in that place? Was it a situation where they had it in their minds that it would have to be that place because of some prior appreciation of a bunch of coincidences? It would appear so. It does not look to me like people are trying to fit Washington into a narrative after the fact. It seems to have come out of appreciated alignments to begin with. Chicken and egg problem, I guess.

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