First Folio

[Kate]

Hi all, Somehow I missed all the replies in this older thread. I’ve no idea how this happened. Sorry.
 

So, AP, is there anything to add? Did Peter arrive at any conclusion regarding the similarities of these to the one in the First Folio that would be difficult for the Stratfordians to explain away?  I’m fascinated by this but don’t have a copy of that particular book by Peter. Thanks 
 

 

[A Phoenix]

Hi Kate,

In a discussion Peter states that the Pan Tail-Piece 'is especially associated with literary works either written or supervised by Francis Bacon, or else coming from the Baconian-Rosicrucian 'School'' (p. 228).

[Kate]

Went along to a free 20 min talk on the First Folio at the Bodleian Library yesterday. They had the Malone version on display and some global translations. Took a few pics.

The lecturer addressed the authorship question by saying there were unanswered queries about why this folio was the first ever to feature the author’s picture on the cover, and she compared it to Ben Jonson’s Folio which has the normal type of architectural image cover of that era. 

She did mention the fact the engraving had to be redone as his head appeared to be floating, but she didn’t mention FB or EdV and instead trotted out the usual lines of attributing the Folio in its entirety to a vast number of printers and people trying to ensure Shakespeare’s plays were presented in the best possible way to make it a commercial success. So in that regard it wasn’t totally his. Nothing about Rosicrucians!

As far as why we should care about it. She spoke about how, for a man who was hardly eulogised after his death and for whom only one pictorial likeness of him has ever been put forth, the Folio made him the most famous playwright ever, and influenced our language etc.

I think AP should get in touch and engage her in conversation 😄 Have to say that she seemed like one of those people who would listen respectfully, rather than being ‘sniffy’ about it.

There’s a very strange pic on the one translation (see below).

 

Edited March 5 by Kate

[Allisnum2er]

Thank you for sharing Kate !

For the anecdote, I have a television but I watch it very rarely. One day, I decided to take a break in my Baconian/Shakespearian research and to watch a film instead. It was past 9:00 pm and all the films had already started.

I chose an old Star Trek film that I had never watched before, and when I began to watch it, I came precisely across this scene with a Klingon quoting Hamlet in  Shakespeare ! 😊

And indeed this is a very strange pic that the one of Shakespeare without his moustache and his chin puff !

[peethagoras]

Has anyone ever wondered why the image is shown wearing the collar of a warrior?

 

Gentle Shakespeare?

[Kate]

On 3/5/2023 at 11:37 AM, peethagoras said:

Has anyone ever wondered why the image is shown wearing the collar of a warrior?

 

Gentle Shakespeare?

Collar of a warrior? Not sure what that is. Can you enlighten. We did discuss somewhere in the last year how the ruff is the shape of a spade which has significant occult symbolism esp in combo with Apollo’s rays.

We’ve also discussed how certain words may or may not be concealed in some of the swirls on the doublet.

However, completely synchronistically, I just opened Twitter and the first post I was greeted with was the Droeshout portrait and I immediately noticed something on the forehead. 

Now I should just say this is far more likely to be something where someone has written on a piece of paper years ago using the folio as a base and therefore a slight indentation is showing up, rather than it being anything in the engraving itself - but you never know.

So I see a line of letters. Some of which appear to be rake or brake or even tarakenth or etarake??Take a look. I’ve used filters to try and define. Probably nothing. This portrait must surely must have been studied by experts using microscopes and modern technology multiple times.

Rob, I love the Klingon observation! 

[Light-of-Truth]

That may be jpeg artifact effect from lower res images. In High Res we see more of the engraving cuts.

I say it is quite a quality engraving for such an odd result. LOL

Look at the eyes, a real artist at work here.

[Eric Roberts]

3 hours ago, Kate said:

Collar of a warrior? Not sure what that is. Can you enlighten. We did discuss somewhere in the last year how the ruff is the shape of a spade which has significant occult symbolism esp in combo with Apollo’s rays.

We’ve also discussed how certain words may or may not be concealed in some of the swirls on the doublet.

However, completely synchronistically, I just opened Twitter and the first post I was greeted with was the Droeshout portrait and I immediately noticed something on the forehead. 

Now I should just say this is far more likely to be something where someone has written on a piece of paper years ago using the folio as a base and therefore a slight indentation is showing up, rather than it being anything in the engraving itself - but you never know.

So I see a line of letters. Some of which appear to be rake or brake or even tarakenth or etarake??Take a look. I’ve used filters to try and define. Probably nothing. This portrait must surely must have been studied by experts using microscopes and modern technology multiple times.

Rob, I love the Klingon observation! 

Hi Kate. Well spotted - even if, as Rob says, it may be due to digital compression. What is certain is that, judging by the Droeshout "portrait", Shakespeare was exceptionally big headed. 🙂

[Light-of-Truth]

I want to put a map over his head.

St. Albans, Williamsburg VA, and Mahone Bay NS might fit perfectly with astronomical precision! 🙂

 

[Eric Roberts]

For anyone reading the plays, this site might be helpful: https://www.shakespeareswords.com/Public/Glossary.aspx

[Light-of-Truth]

 

43 minutes ago, Eric Roberts said:

For anyone reading the plays, this site might be helpful: https://www.shakespeareswords.com/Public/Glossary.aspx

I was hoping I could put in the original spelling, but maybe not?

[peethagoras]

Hi Kate. I have spent many long hours studying the same things as yourself, I even see a little storm-tossed boat !

 

More to the point, here are some images I have collected which might throw a different light on the Droeshout questions. I think there was a secret group of ?men? who wore the same collar in portraits, as a kind of sign if you will. The subject in one of the portraits is unknown, some say he was Anthony Babbington, but they don't really know.

John Davies of Hereford is shown wearing one - another wielder of the mighty pen, dressed in a warrior's collar.

Sometimes I come across websites who discuss the very collar and they suggest it is not a known article of clothing, how wrong they are!

Anyway, as I asked: why did someone put "gentle Shakespeare" in warrior's garb? I think the answer lies above the Droeshout "portrait", to the right, in the last four letters of the name SHAKESPEARES, if you know your Greek mythology and get my drift: Roman Mars might help you.

  

 

 

 

Enjoy

 

[peethagoras]

In passing, wrt the Droeshout "portrait" :  6 lines of text at top, 2 lines at bottom:  6 2  :  F B.

The army images are from a book I came across with the title "De Nassaushe  wapen-handelinge...." I also had a book called "Mars his Field...." which contained many very similar images, but alas I loaned it to a 'friend', but he lost it (and I the 'friend').

[Kate]

2 hours ago, peethagoras said:

Hi Kate. I have spent many long hours studying the same things as yourself, I even see a little storm-tossed boat !

 

More to the point, here are some images I have collected which might throw a different light on the Droeshout questions. I think there was a secret group of ?men? who wore the same collar in portraits, as a kind of sign if you will. The subject in one of the portraits is unknown, some say he was Anthony Babbington, but they don't really know.

John Davies of Hereford is shown wearing one - another wielder of the mighty pen, dressed in a warrior's collar.

Sometimes I come across websites who discuss the very collar and they suggest it is not a known article of clothing, how wrong they are!

Anyway, as I asked: why did someone put "gentle Shakespeare" in warrior's garb? I think the answer lies above the Droeshout "portrait", to the right, in the last four letters of the name SHAKESPEARES, if you know your Greek mythology and get my drift: Roman Mars might help you.

  

 

 

 

Enjoy

 

That’s amazing! Thank you for sharing and solving the mystery! 

[Kate]

So pondering this a little more, it’s a book on weapon handling from 1618 https://wellcomecollection.org/works/aqacg7t3/items?canvas=5

and the symbolism of the (warrior-Mars) spear shaker is clear.

Can anyone read that language (German?) Does it say anything about the neckwear?

John Davies also died in 1618 but in 1610 penned the famous “To our English Terence, Mr Will. Shake-speare” (so while Shakespeare was alive).https://oxfraud.com/index.php/SL-john-hereford

But Babington also wearing one is pre 1586 and plotted to kill QE1.  It must be worth exploring more about why Droeshout would have used this ruff. Was it just to symbolise a spear shaker and ‘the pen is mightier than the sword’ or is there some other connection to uncover that might provide a link not yet explored? What was the link of John Davies to FB?  

The English Terence was in a Eulogy to FB wasn’t it? Who wrote that, I forget?  🕵🏻‍♀️😄
 

Hmm, just found a whole topic thread on The English Terence and Yann had unearthed some great info but still wondering about the ruff.  

Edited March 9 by Kate

[Eric Roberts]

1 hour ago, Kate said:

So pondering this a little more, it’s a book on weapon handling from 1618 https://wellcomecollection.org/works/aqacg7t3/items?canvas=5

and the symbolism of the (warrior-Mars) spear shaker is clear.

Can anyone read that language (German?) Does it say anything about the neckwear?

John Davies also died in 1618 but in 1610 penned the famous “To our English Terence, Mr Will. Shake-speare” (so while Shakespeare was alive).https://oxfraud.com/index.php/SL-john-hereford

But Babington also wearing one is pre 1586 and plotted to kill QE1.  It must be worth exploring more about why Droeshout would have used this ruff. Was it just to symbolise a spear shaker and ‘the pen is mightier than the sword’ or is there some other connection to uncover that might provide a link not yet explored? What was the link of John Davies to FB?  

The English Terence was in a Eulogy to FB wasn’t it? Who wrote that, I forget?  🕵🏻‍♀️😄
 

Hmm, just found a whole topic thread on The English Terence and Yann had unearthed some great info but still wondering about the ruff.  

 

1 hour ago, Kate said:

So pondering this a little more, it’s a book on weapon handling from 1618 https://wellcomecollection.org/works/aqacg7t3/items?canvas=5

and the symbolism of the (warrior-Mars) spear shaker is clear.

Can anyone read that language (German?) Does it say anything about the neckwear?

John Davies also died in 1618 but in 1610 penned the famous “To our English Terence, Mr Will. Shake-speare” (so while Shakespeare was alive).https://oxfraud.com/index.php/SL-john-hereford

But Babington also wearing one is pre 1586 and plotted to kill QE1.  It must be worth exploring more about why Droeshout would have used this ruff. Was it just to symbolise a spear shaker and ‘the pen is mightier than the sword’ or is there some other connection to uncover that might provide a link not yet explored? What was the link of John Davies to FB?  

The English Terence was in a Eulogy to FB wasn’t it? Who wrote that, I forget?  🕵🏻‍♀️😄
 

Hmm, just found a whole topic thread on The English Terence and Yann had unearthed some great info but still wondering about the ruff.  

Hi Kate

I, too, am intrigued by Peethagoras's observation about the "warrior's collar"/ruff in the Droeshout portrait. First, though, I decided to respond to your question about the link between John Davies and Francis Bacon - and down I went into yet another rabbit hole...

As you probably know (and as I'm just beginning to find out) there were two contemporaries of Francis Bacon by the name of John Davies - Sir John Davies (1569-1626) and John Davies of Hereford (1565-1618). Both were poets and it seems that  they both knew that Francis Bacon was also a poet.

"be kind to concealed poets" - this revealing line is from a letter written by Bacon to Sir John Davies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Davies_(poet,_born_1569)

https://briefpoems.wordpress.com/tag/sir-john-davies/

https://www.luminarium.org/renlit/astraea2.htm (Not one of Sir John's best efforts, dedicated to QEI)

https://www.luminarium.org/renlit/daviebio.htm (A brief sketch of the life of Sir John Davies)

https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en-US/english-school/an-artist-illustration-from-a-work-for-none-but-angels-and-men-by-sir-john-davies-1653-litho/lithograph/asset/2660824 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"The Scourge of Folly" written by John Davies of Hereford, has been discussed by Peter Dawkins:

https://www.fbrt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/The-Royal-Knight-Sir-Francis-Bacon.pdf

 

It's easy to see how Penn Leary could have been confused by two major poets named "John Davies" who were both in the orbit of Sir Francis Bacon at the same time:

https://sirbacon.org/johndavies.htm

[Eric Roberts]

The ruff was a popular fashion for most of the Elizabethan and Jacobean period. It appears merely as a small cambric, holland, lawn, or lace frill at the neck in illustrations prior to 1570. After that time, particularly as a consequence of the introduction of starch into England in 1564, the ruff expanded greatly. The starch held the ruff in a particular shape and kept it from bending.9 In Ben Jonson’s The Alchemist (1610), Subtle describes a man wearing a large ruff: “He looks in that deep ruff like a head in a platter”. James Laver notes that the ruff, growing sometimes to a quarter of a yard in radius, was an article of clothing worn exclusively by gentlemen since it emphasized the fact that its wearer did not need to work. The enormous ruffs that became more common towards the end of Elizabeth’s reign may lead one to wonder how the wearer managed to eat. And yet, this article of clothing is so common in the portraits of nobles and gentry in the era that we must understand it to be common apparel of widely accepted taste. Instead of wearing a ruff (or even in addition to it), Englishmen sometimes wore collars, called bands. One could wear a falling band which folded down from the neck or a standing band that would stand out from the neck with the aid of starch. Matching ruffs or bands are often seen on sleeves in paintings from the period. By the 1630s, the band had largely replaced the ruff in English clothing. (page 17)

From a dissertation by Robert I. Lublin: 

COSTUMING THE SHAKESPEAREAN STAGE: VISUAL CODES OF REPRESENTATION IN EARLY MODERN THEATRE AND CULTURE 

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_etd/send_file/send?accession=osu1060614385&disposition=inline

 

Regarding the Droeshout portrait, the type of collar depicted is properly referred to as a standing band or "neck whisk".

See: The Burlington Magazine for Connoisseurs Vol. 29, No. 162 (Sep., 1916) pages 245-250:

https://archive.org/details/burlingtonmagazi29londuoft/page/248/mode/2up?view=theater

Richard Sackville, 3rd Earl of Dorset, Isaac Oliver 1616

https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O77708/richard-sackville-3rd-earl-of-portrait-miniature-oliver-isaac/

On balance, it would seem that the standing band, demi-lune collar was a more practical, less restrictive Jacobean development of the Elizabethan ruff. As Peethagoras has indicated, it was adopted as part of military dress code as can be seen in this illustration:

https://luna.folger.edu/luna/servlet/view/search?q=Call_Number%3D"ART+Vol.+c91"+LIMIT%3AFOLGERCM1~6~6&pgs=250&res=2&cic=FOLGERCM1~6~6&sort=MPSORTORDER1%2CCall_Number%2CCD_Title%2CImprint

However, it looks as though it originated in courtly circles and was then adapted by the military, perhaps as a nod to the fashion of the period, not the other way around. So the collar in the Droeshout "Shakespeare" portrait does not necessarily have any hidden meaning or military associations. But perhaps Peethagoras has more research on the subject?

 

[Kate]

1 hour ago, Eric Roberts said:

The ruff was a popular fashion for most of the Elizabethan and Jacobean period. It appears merely as a small cambric, holland, lawn, or lace frill at the neck in illustrations prior to 1570. After that time, particularly as a consequence of the introduction of starch into England in 1564, the ruff expanded greatly. The starch held the ruff in a particular shape and kept it from bending.9 In Ben Jonson’s The Alchemist (1610), Subtle describes a man wearing a large ruff: “He looks in that deep ruff like a head in a platter”. James Laver notes that the ruff, growing sometimes to a quarter of a yard in radius, was an article of clothing worn exclusively by gentlemen since it emphasized the fact that its wearer did not need to work. The enormous ruffs that became more common towards the end of Elizabeth’s reign may lead one to wonder how the wearer managed to eat. And yet, this article of clothing is so common in the portraits of nobles and gentry in the era that we must understand it to be common apparel of widely accepted taste. Instead of wearing a ruff (or even in addition to it), Englishmen sometimes wore collars, called bands. One could wear a falling band which folded down from the neck or a standing band that would stand out from the neck with the aid of starch. Matching ruffs or bands are often seen on sleeves in paintings from the period. By the 1630s, the band had largely replaced the ruff in English clothing. (page 17)

From a dissertation by Robert I. Lublin: 

COSTUMING THE SHAKESPEAREAN STAGE: VISUAL CODES OF REPRESENTATION IN EARLY MODERN THEATRE AND CULTURE 

https://etd.ohiolink.edu/apexprod/rws_etd/send_file/send?accession=osu1060614385&disposition=inline

 

Regarding the Droeshout portrait, the type of collar depicted is properly referred to as a standing band or "neck whisk".

See: The Burlington Magazine for Connoisseurs Vol. 29, No. 162 (Sep., 1916) pages 245-250:

https://archive.org/details/burlingtonmagazi29londuoft/page/248/mode/2up?view=theater

Richard Sackville, 3rd Earl of Dorset, Isaac Oliver 1616

https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O77708/richard-sackville-3rd-earl-of-portrait-miniature-oliver-isaac/

On balance, it would seem that the standing band, demi-lune collar was a more practical, less restrictive Jacobean development of the Elizabethan ruff. As Peethagoras has indicated, it was adopted as part of military dress code as can be seen in this illustration:

https://luna.folger.edu/luna/servlet/view/search?q=Call_Number%3D"ART+Vol.+c91"+LIMIT%3AFOLGERCM1~6~6&pgs=250&res=2&cic=FOLGERCM1~6~6&sort=MPSORTORDER1%2CCall_Number%2CCD_Title%2CImprint

However, it looks as though it originated in courtly circles and was then adapted by the military, perhaps as a nod to the fashion of the period, not the other way around. So the collar in the Droeshout "Shakespeare" portrait does not necessarily have any hidden meaning or military associations. But perhaps Peethagoras has more research on the subject?

 

Fascinating! Thank you for researching this 

[RoyalCraftiness]

The collar is an important arc suggestion in the Droeshout portrait.

The arc of the collar is centered at E. It intersects the circle which contains the image at C and D here, giving CD perpendicular to GF. This is the line of the button hem. Point G is part of an angle AGB that is 80 degrees. AGF and BGF are 40 degrees. The arc of the collar created on its circle is about 48 degrees or 1/7.5 th of the circle. If one does the math it is what is required for the 40,60,80 triangle to come out of the top (shown elsewhere previously). The collar ends up being a clever design element in the composition and worthy of consideration.

[Light-of-Truth]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:20 AM, RoyalCraftiness said:

The collar is an important arc suggestion in the Droeshout portrait.

The arc of the collar is centered at E. It intersects the circle which contains the image at C and D here, giving CD perpendicular to GF. This is the line of the button hem. Point G is part of an angle AGB that is 80 degrees. AGF and BGF are 40 degrees. The arc of the collar created on its circle is about 48 degrees or 1/7.5 th of the circle. If one does the math it is what is required for the 40,60,80 triangle to come out of the top (shown elsewhere previously). The collar ends up being a clever design element in the composition and worthy of consideration.

I missed this when it posted. I have too much going on in my life! LOL

There are more than just AGF and BFG that are interesting and 40, 60, 80 degrees add up to 180 and are impressive. Every triangle adds up to 180, right? I wonder what CGF and DGF are?

I would bet that Willy of Avon was not the face in Shakespeare's engraving. I'd be surprised if what he looked like would even be recognizable based on his images after he was dead.

Yet this engraving has a lot to share about Shakespeare and his purpose, and who he was. 😉

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

On 3/20/2023 at 5:59 PM, Light-of-Truth said:

I missed this when it posted. I have too much going on in my life! LOL

There are more than just AGF and BFG that are interesting and 40, 60, 80 degrees add up to 180 and are impressive. Every triangle adds up to 180, right? I wonder what CGF and DGF are?

I would bet that Willy of Avon was not the face in Shakespeare's engraving. I'd be surprised if what he looked like would even be recognizable based on his images after he was dead.

Yet this engraving has a lot to share about Shakespeare and his purpose, and who he was. 😉

 

I don't know who designed this before it was executed and put to paper. We are given only the name of the engraver. I don' t know who the likeness is supposed to represent. I don't think it's main function is to present a very good likeness. It appears to have been more important that the features be guided by the geometric composition that may have been handed to an engraver.as a starting point. What got produced is something rather stiff and cartoonish. Altrnatively you could suggest that the engraver did this on his own.

The geometric feature with the most obvious intent is the positioning of the 80,60,40 triangle. It's center is also the center of the rectangle which contains the image. That tells you it was engineered to be that way. It is elegant enough that it was made to come out, but to have it be concentric means it was likely started with.  That's about all I have to say about it. This we can show. The point of it is another story. 

The main composition is guided by a geometric idea for what Bacon and Brahe accepted as the cosmology of our solar system. It was an improvement over Ptolemy's system of epicenters, but it is still wrong. I doubt that Shakespeare would have had any opinion about that, but he could have.  I don't know why anyone would have wanted to show that even if WS did hold that belief. It appears to me to be the idea of someone still living who has a hand in the production of the folio, and of someone who had an acute interest in the Summer triangle asterism. As you know, I feel we are well within our abilities to show that Bacon imagery was utilizing this triangular asterism as a celestial beacon in other places. I also think he used Triangulum.  I feel we can show that someone was suggesting the use of this pairing.  It's never more suggested than in Sylva Sylvarum, a work that was Bacon's Swan Song. What it all means is something I can only speculate about. If something is detectable and elegant, does it have a meaning? It must have had a meaning to someone. 

 

 

[Eric Roberts]

 

If anyone has the time and inclination, the author has concealed a name in his dedication below. Can anyone figure it out? 

 

[A Phoenix]

Hi Eric,

Yann and Rob are probably the best people for the job!

[Allisnum2er]

6 hours ago, Eric Roberts said:

If anyone has the time and inclination, the author has concealed a name in his dedication below. Can anyone figure it out? 

 

Hi Eric,

I do not know if this is the answer .

This is just my first thought.

I wonder if William Stone Booth, Author and Editor, would have been able, just for fun, to write a Dedication to himself.

"The man to whose generous courage I am indebted"

Notice the name "of", the publication "of" , from end to end "of".

WILLIAM STONE BOOTH

EDIT :