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Kate
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Hi Kate, I have just taken another look at the above 'To the Reader'. I have just noticed there are 72 words (counting the out-doo as 2 words) on the page which when added to the 287 letters (Fra Rosicrosss in kay cipher): 287+72=359 a simple and kay cipher for Francis Bacon (100)/Shakespeare (259) thus conveying the concealed cryptographic message that Francis Bacon, Brother of the Rosy Cross, is Shakespeare. 

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Posted (edited)

Hi

I'm sure this one must be well-known or I am reading it incorrectly but in Sonnet 33, I see FV11, not sure what it is meant to say (full?) but V11 is 7 and F is 32 = 39 = F.Bacon. What has been found in 33? (It's Kay not Kaye I know). Source: Folger.edu Source number 19622

2097986050_Sonnet33.png.d59261f9937c825083fe5ce9168adc0d.png

Edited by Kate
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Kate, Sonnet 33 is like a can-o-worms with me. Bacon's main life story is told in Line 33, Day 33, and Sonnet 33. And of course it is! If any of us were Bacon and wanted to leave our most important clues in the Sonnets, number 33 would be the place. Right?

I will start a new post on Sonnet 33 some day. Can't tonight as I HAVE to get to bed at a reasonable time. I keep staying up Baconating neglecting my work priorities.

Your "F Vll" find that begins Sonnet 33 is one for the books. I love it! 67 (FRANCIS) to start a line with 33 characters (BACON)! In Sonnet 33!!!!! 67+33=100, the Simple cipher of FRANCIS BACON and the Kaye cipher of TUDOR. In the first line of Sonnet 33!

Sonnet 33 is about the moment when Bacon was born. He was but one hour hers. This Sonnet was written as a gift from Elizabeth to Bacon, perhaps the only public acknowledgement he ever received from her. Yet enough that one day the world will know he was born of the Virgin Mother, Queen Elizabeth Tudor.

(In my opinion anyway...)

 

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T A A A A A A A A A A A T
157     www.Light-of-Truth.com     287
<-- 1 8 8 1 1
O 1 1 8 8 1 -->

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Lawrence Gerald said:

To The Reader

T

W

O

Two=B   Two B or Not Two B (To Bacon or Not to Bacon)

🤦🏻‍♀️Of course! How did I miss that? Brilliant!

 

And look, I just went to the passage and it reads To Two from top down left with two as an anagram 💥

 

To WTO


1E0B45C2-D33F-4CE6-8DA1-ABB2B7F3EDDA.png.d9aa07593144cefe2f3e1f97fe1813f1.png

 

Photo by Georgelazenby. Courtesy Wikimedia Commons.

Edited by Kate
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Posted (edited)

Hi kate,

Your great last post made me discover the differences, in this famous passage of Hamlet, between the First Folio and the Good Quarto. 🙏 Thank you !

There are a lot of words in the First Folio version that have their first letter in Capital and I believe that some of them are relevant.

901342812_2022-06-02(2).png.b64d09fb1e357862a01fdc2597c026db.png

https://internetshakespeare.uvic.ca/Library/facsimile/book/SLNSW_F1/773/index.html%3Fzoom=850.html

Moreover, still by counting from "To be or not to be" :

In the sentence " That Flesh is heyre too ?" the word Flesh is the 62nd word and 62 # F.B. 

"will " is the 200th word and 200 is the reverse cipher of FRANCIS BACON.

And for you Rob, in the sentence "But that the dread of something after death", death it the 188th word 😉 (188 is the Kaye cipher of ETERNITY)

Edited by Allisnum2er
Link to Internet Shakespeare Editions
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image.png.b8c74f56d5551c745119c268cf9d3db8.png

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Quote

And for you Rob, in the sentence "But that the dread of something after death", death it the 188th word 😉 (188 is the Kaye cipher of ETERNITY)

DEATH is 88 Reverse cipher and is the 188th word in this speech in a forward direction. <-- 88188 -->

188 seems to Janus itself a lot in Bacon's SHAkespeare. 🙂

 

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T A A A A A A A A A A A T
157     www.Light-of-Truth.com     287
<-- 1 8 8 1 1
O 1 1 8 8 1 -->

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Posted (edited)
On 6/2/2022 at 9:05 PM, Allisnum2er said:

Hi kate,

Your great last post made me discover the differences, in this famous passage of Hamlet, between the First Folio and the Good Quarto. 🙏 Thank you !

There are a lot of words in the First Folio version that have their first letter in Capital and I believe that some of them are relevant.

901342812_2022-06-02(2).png.b64d09fb1e357862a01fdc2597c026db.png

https://internetshakespeare.uvic.ca/Library/facsimile/book/SLNSW_F1/773/index.html%3Fzoom=850.html

Moreover, still by counting from "To be or not to be" :

In the sentence " That Flesh is heyre too ?" the word Flesh is the 62nd word and 62 # F.B. 

"will " is the 200th word and 200 is the reverse cipher of FRANCIS BACON.

And for you Rob, in the sentence "But that the dread of something after death", death it the 188th word 😉 (188 is the Kaye cipher of ETERNITY)

Fascinating Rob! My pleasure. Sorry for the sudden absence, we had our big Platinum Jubilee celebrations for the last few days and I had guests. 

7B28C087-98DE-4FFD-ABD0-12C8BE2BE04D.jpeg.36f11cdb6070409687e5ecaf2035bf6b.jpeg Here’s a round-up for anyone interested. Always wonderful to see the pomp and pageantry and think of the differences between now and the time of Queen Elizabeth 1st.

99F50200-6B2E-4BD7-BE11-CB2FDB17C075.jpeg.80943929158491769f15b9d64de642d2.jpeg
 

https://news.sky.com/video/share-12628476

x

Edited by Kate
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Posted (edited)

Hi

Due to a notification I have just seen the thread and APs post from a while back about the amount of elegies that contain references to Bacon as Apollo, that’s amazing! I’ve already forgotten but it either said 11 or 18! I wish I’d seen or recalled that post when I did my video and showed only two examples. Ah well, next one (with full credit to AP).

So for those who have seen my video here’s some more to continue the Ben Jonson ‘duality’ trail.

3F49F959-31AC-4BB8-8E53-457BFFA37DA7.jpeg.e8bbf57a5eb3716036831b914e824869.jpeg
 

Plus 33 letters (Bacon) in the line (1603).
 

There is surely a play on words leading back to the B at the start of TT - The Tempest: To B or not TWO B!

Looking at Ben Jonson’s SECOND entry at the start of the First Folio, we again see the To and Two doubling/twin symbolism that leads us to TT and 33 and therefore, Bacon

 

9816BF1F-670B-4705-ABCB-21D6D35BD85E.jpeg.a9cd5dbed68387f6d1632dce6059481b.jpeg
Note the Am I (I Am That) has been indented to allow the TWO to be noticed.

B2E1010B-7D54-470C-9C68-6E335943D404.jpeg.3e1b0831c0eb0a54d18d1c9fbcec8152.jpeg

and as well as the infamous repetition of Haughtie Rome by Jonson there is also the reference to Apollo/Mercury

EF819EEC-40EE-4A21-BC2B-EDD244196540.jpeg.f3d83ccd1248b6278e0b5bdbe31c79f6.jpeg

Here’s my video link again if anyone reading wonders what I’m referring to

Finally just by chance, as I had mentioned Miss Covington in my vid too, now I notice this T on the Ben Jonson page is perhaps hiding Bacon too? Not 100% sure on this, but there are some clear shapes like the letters a, n and c.

3669A63E-24C3-4A29-9745-5142647C23A1.jpeg.e5c223708c23fd0e01e0518ca5edddef.jpeg

There’s obviously a reason why Ben Jonson is signed Ben: Jonson. - but I’ve yet to understand it.  I’d love to hear any thoughts on that.

Kate

Edited by Kate
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Good afternoon Kate !

Those are another great spots ! 👍

Regarding "To the memory of my beloved ..." you will find our analysis of the beginning of the poem in one of Light-of-Truth's topics  :

https://sirbacon.org/bacon-forum/index.php?/topic/78-ben-jonson-to-the-memory-of-my-beloued/

And here are some additional thoughts, in the light of your post ...

image.png.8116236273858af6b362ee91c06f506c.png

 

I AM William Tudor

image.png.2d043caa7555dfdd410059c9f6777282.png

 

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Posted (edited)

We are really making inroads now. Great team effort!

I spent a few hours looking at the sonnets dedication again. I used every single cipher device including the one from MercurySwift Messenger where the dots can be read as letters when placed in a grid. Nothing yielded anything significant. Then I realised that all the other clues are in plain sight so this might be pretty simple too and part of the “double” theme.
 

The word forth has always struck me so I’ve counted 4 words 4 letters, 4 lines, split it into 4, split the alphabet into four and - nothing appeared, including using the quad cipher that makes A into D, B to E, C to F etc. I believe the shape is a red-herring as it was quite common to see this triangular typesetting but they and the dots just alert us to look more closely. 2 x 2 letters in four (forth) corners =
F. Bacon and the cabalistic 33 signature TT
4F078E18-933D-4BB7-B326-A919487CB4B7.jpeg.0b13b171c68f442aed4e867f3cf20e76.jpeg
 

Oh, there is another thing. A.Waugh is always going on about how this divides up to 6 lines 2 lines and 4 lines, so it must represent Edward De Vere, but it’s patently obvious the demarcation, if looking at this dedication, is 5,3,4

A numerical anagram of 3,4,5. The 345 triangle is possibly one of the most important triangles in Rosicrucian/Masonic symbolism as it is the triangle of Osiris, Isis and Horus (see my ebook) and an integral part of the 47th Proposition (known to Masons as ‘problem’) of Euclid. It enables one to square a room, floor, building or plot of land. That may be why they close the triangular layout to draw attention to the trinity/trinities.

 

Edited by Kate
Add about the 47th
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Btw re above 5,3,4 are also the shapes of a pentagon, triangle and square.

Referencing my video (up above) and my mention of twins and spades. It’s dawned on me that in the Shakespeare Funerary Monument at Stratford the twins sit above “Shakespeare” and one holds a spade...

68A54CBF-87A6-4ACD-8F87-042EDD892E95.jpeg.961960831745e42201312c3940f17f53.jpeg

Wikipedia 

4D0A9C71-E594-44AB-9AD1-8487D83CC879.jpeg.8fca0f1fdf3e8021b6a0c82b1865d912.jpeg

...so I’m claiming my observation that the ruff in the Droeshout engraving is a spade as correct. (I know some people liken it to a shield as Athena was born brandishing not only a spear but a shield. That may be a double meaning?)

Also, and Rob I’ve taken your picture off the main SirBacon.org site here, as it also shows the addition of numbers to be the Bacon and Rosicrosse Ciphers which may be interesting to onlookers, so I hope that’s ok. Anyway, I mentioned the other day that I think the word hit was added by Ben Jonson to complete the rhyme but we should also see it as hid. Today I noticed the punctuation does seem to support this...
 

63C672B2-DB50-43CB-84CA-6E2036320496.jpeg.fef4eb49a28d2ef569b65790caad13cd.jpeg

As well in brasse, as he hath hit his face;

O, if only he could have drawn his wit as well in brass, as he has hid (hidden) his face!

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Hi Rob

I have a bit of a truth gene within me, and I'd always rather be honest and authentic than false.  Personally, I just can't quite get onboard with this likeness to the Royal Arch Jewel.  For me, I think it's a bit too convoluted and unlikely but I am totally aware of how much effort you've put into it and respect your years of dealing with cipher, so it may just be that I am missing something.  What I do think is intriguing is the picture of when you centered the dots. It reminds me of some of the pictures you see of the Temple layout.  Do a quick Google and you'll see many of them have dots.

I've had a quick look and nothing really matches, but I also know John Wilkins showed how points and shapes were used as cipher. On page 91 it says 'By points alone' so maybe. The thing is, everything is just a theory  unless one can show a distinct pattern - a system - that is replicated throughout. Even if you are right about this there's no way of ever proving it. To me, to find acrostics or cipher on pages where one would expect them to be, such as Sonnet 33 or page 2 of the FF or 100 0r 157 is still not proof but when they spell of F Bacon or Thirty Three, it's as close as one can get to 'proving' it. As the  book I linked to a few months back about Latin inscriptions showed dots after individual words were a regular feature, the number of dots and words may be significant, but they may not. They may just be a signal to look for some simpler cipher within it rather than to pass it by.

 

Again, all that said when you lay your picture (left) alongside others, you may be right and I am wrong. I hope you respect my honesty.

K

1007567467_SolomonsTemple2.png.f63bbad3cf1333acbb330e8e3a03e6bc.png

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Kate! I LOVE and admire your honesty!

And I will say this, you are NOT ALONE! LOL

My year or so of work to find this solution was not even related to the solution I found. One of the first books that I received from Lawrence was Penn Leary's "The. Complete. Cryptograpic.  Shake-speare". It was in 1990 I think. I had read some Dodd and had already met and was a fan of Peter Dawkins.

https://www.baconscipher.com/

Penn was about the Caesar Cipher. He used after some trial and error a 21 letter cipher alphabet, and either plus or minus 4 for the Caesar Cipher letters. So as my first treasure hunting adventure I bought 5 packs of graph paper at a time for over year filling them by pencil using his technique. I used the 21 letter alphabet, the 24 letter alphabet that I had heard of, 26, and others randomly. Sheet after sheet of letters. By then I was already obsessed with the Sonnets. But I had not started doing numbers yet.

So I'd take a line from the Sonnets that to me meant something and write it out across. Usually I'd pick up my copy of the Sonnets and open a page and pick the first line that seemed to have meaning. Often the first line I'd see. Then I'd use my pencil and write out the grid till I had 21, 24, 26, or however many rows down going through the alphabet + or - 4, or whatever number I was using that week. I'd end up with a sheet of graph paper full of letters and I'd jump in, looking for BACON and seeking anything I could find.

So what did I find after more than a year? Not one thing that I remember. Never found a BACON connecting in any way. Not even in a zigzag. On the other hand I enjoyed every moment, all those hours over so many months. I started to get the know the Sonnets, and definitely started to get know Bacon. Then I came to realize I was not finding anything on this path. As much as I was absorbed in these pages of letters, it wasn't clicking.

I had a nice photocopy of the Sonnets Dedication poem that I always had around. I Caesar Ciphered the Dedication poem to bits. Mr. Leary had the best solution. Yet I knew there was yet more to see in that obvious cipher message. And I had this visual copy of the Sonnets Dedication poem around me constantly.

One day I was sitting on my bed, thinking I needed to seek new direction, kind of free thinking and not starting another grid. Cipher numbers came to mind, Simple and Kaye. All I knew back then was 33, 111, 157, and 287. Thinking about all this I noticed that Dedication poem photocopy on my bed, but it was in a weird place at a funny angle. The two T's looked exaggerated and I was looking "up" the poem. I thought, "What a strange perspective I am having." Then I thought, "What if the two T's are Bacon's Pillars?" I started reading from the two T's and up from the angle I had. "FORTH" was the 4th word, that caught my attention. I read what appeared to be a lucid poem pretty much as I present my theory today. The stops were not centered, but I sensed a design. So of course, I grabbed a sheet of graph paper and aligned the dots centering them and read the words again from the two T's up ending up with a very skinny star design. But I saw it! I took my compass and redid the stops and drew a new design as I read up the poem.

image-3.jpg.759674ba03f127b11d20a887fbfeb79d.jpg

The pattern:

image-5.jpg.80dc11499e4da49bfa7ef5e50ddfbb7f.jpg

Kate, thank you for your honesty. What I see so clearly is not seen by others. At first I was shocked, then disappointed, and eventually realized that the timing is not up to me. I'm blessed to see and know what I do believe is the design left by Bacon's close friends. Obviously this is a treat that I enjoy while knowing I may never see the day when the world recognizes it for what it is. That's OK, it is for future ages and maybe foreign nations. 😉

RoyalArchMasonJewel1.jpg.f0b74eae2ca13f618c84181cb535da42.jpg

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T A A A A A A A A A A A T
157     www.Light-of-Truth.com     287
<-- 1 8 8 1 1
O 1 1 8 8 1 -->

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for your response, Rob. I hear you.

Some people are addicted to drink, some to drugs or other stuff, like you I’m addicted to this! 😂 Sleuthing!

I’ve spent hours doing grids of different lengths too. It’s relaxing like doing those colouring books!

There could well be some key, like putting the word Shake-Speare or Adventurer down the side and reading across, but my sensible hat tells me, that if they did want to encode something to be found it would have to be something simple - in plain sight using a method known to cryptographers then and now. No point in using a key no one would find.
 

The flower is very interesting. What’s clear when you overlay grids though, whether you divide the full width of the page into 4s, or just use a quadrature around the text, is that the grid system doesn’t line up vertically in any of them, but from top to bottom, horizontally, the lines are clear and the letters all placed in one band.
 

Having seen, when I visited the old press on display in Oxford,  how the printers’ laid out each letter in the grooves on the press, one would expect that,  but not the gap after promised and wisheth (see below but  ignore your dots and flower for a mo and just look at the horizontal grid).

Whatever width it is set for, you can see the word by is centered. If you move the grid up to prevent that, (see picture 2 and again ignore dots and flower)  other lines get crossed through by the grid. So if you were a printer there’s surely no reason to lay it out like this unless there is some cipher they were concealing?9983C643-9402-49DA-B332-EE1B3BF2C130.jpeg.27d55aaa8aebe3bab5746a23379eb035.jpeg

7FFC30AC-0E34-4E65-A0E3-AB479F78E1A5.jpeg.a096a39560c70e39b8869455ad024baf.jpeg

 

Anagrammatically, the words Wriothesley, DeVere and St Albans are within it but in no order or context that makes sense, but so is Herbert and others, and tbh with this amount of letters you can find just about anything. 
 

I think the four corner cipher that I mentioned before is a good, simple, contender as it’s mentioned by Keller (although not about the Sonnets) in her letter so she must have heard it from somewhere. As 28 dots is B and TT is 33, with that and the four corner cipher of 39 for F Bacon is the best I can offer so far.
 

Together we’ll all get there one day and crack this, Rob. Teamwork! x

Edited by Kate
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It’s often said there are no coincidences in life!

Rob, you just linked in another part of the forum to a 1945 copy of Baconiana for us to read an article about Weever. I continued reading and saw a reader had submitted an answer to a ‘crack the code’ question. 
 

This was his answer grid (turned sideways and cropped)

DE04309F-7E31-4078-8E04-F1A2994C862C.jpeg.deef62f5ffb3760e38ba53bc3747bd8d.jpeg
 

That got me to thinking, I have never tried a 33-wide grid on the Sonnets, have you? It might make sense as the TT points to 33

It’s an idea! 
8ED23A13-F56E-4356-8A63-B64F482ED8C1.jpeg.0b7b2e4c32764acb9a5c22609f373386.jpeg

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My apologies if I share something that has already been noticed by the past !

I just realized that there were the words STAGE and WRIT right in the middle of the page (mediocria firma).

And as I was looking for a possible name concealed in a line parallel to the middle one, I noticed the anagram of TUDOR !

image.png.233c418dbd5706f74ac38182fcdf52d5.png

TUDOR WRIT & STAGE

Edited by Allisnum2er
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