Bacon and Astrology

[Light-of-Truth]

6 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Well, that was fun.

I'm having helluva fun! OMG!

So did Bacon and Khunrath know each other? My seasoned Google skills are not producing much more than what has already been mentioned; Khunrath visited Dee in 1589. Also Khunrath has some significance with Rosicrucian history as does Bacon.

Whether they met or not, I'll suggest they definitely knew of each other and had mutual friends and acquaintances.

Khunrath pops up in Baconiania (1952 page 23) and is mentioned on SirBacon.org via the search. (I was wrong last night when I said the name did not come up and thought I waited to edit the post last night to be surprised when I woke up this morning to see it posted!)

I'm pointing at the "three hundred and sixty four" because that caught my eye. You know, 364 Days in the Sonnets Pyramid design, etc. I did not have any clue it went back to Paracelsus. I know the name from basic awareness of Dee, I think. 😉

Wiki suggests Bacon was opposed to the Paracelsus or German RC movement. Or least according to Yates? Really? Wiki is not a scholarly reference or footnote, but is very popular.

Paracelsianism and Rosicrucianism

Further information: Paracelsianism

Paracelsus was especially venerated by German Rosicrucians, who regarded him as a prophet, and developed a field of systematic study of his writings, which is sometimes called "Paracelsianism", or more rarely "Paracelsism". Francis Bacon warned against Paracelsus and the Rosicrucians, judging that "the ancient opinion that man was microcosmus" had been "fantastically strained by Paracelsus and the alchemists".^[78]

Hmmm, could Frances Yates be missing something or hiding a little Truth for some reason on page 120 of this book where the above is suggested. Or maybe I am a Fool. I feel like I know Bacon, somewhat, and understand he has his public persona to uphold, but Bacon is an alchemist too I suspect on some level.

Did not the first major RC in print come from Germany? Is it even possible that Bacon would not have some part of it?

Bacon was in the circle of the elite who had inside info on what was happening in the world, and the German circle of elite were well aware of who is who in every country. Right? Am I wrong?

Is there a direct Khunrath/Bacon connection besides Dee?

I grabbed a clip from the video that I want to bring up. It may not not work, acting strange for me.

https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxw3viKtoPHZpgxourTq1daJI_ChZukOrd

Khunrath believed he received Divine revelations in his sleep. Funny thing, I have experienced the same and have mentioned it here on the B'Hive more than once.

Just me, maybe a trick I play on myself in my mind? Yet, here is another person who suggests the same thing. For me it is nice to not be the only one. LOL

What if we all can access this realm?

 

 

[A Phoenix]

Hi Rob,

Lord Bacon had a complex and sophisticated view of Paracelsus and for anyone to select out of context a single citation from FB's works is simplisitic and misleading. As you rightly point out what FB said in works with his name to them in those dangerous times and what he said in works he published anonymously and in the names of others were not always one and the same. 

The phrase the German Rosicrucian Movement is also widely misunderstood.

The Rosicrucian Brotherood was founded by Lord Bacon in the 1570s and he was the secret concealed author of its first two anonymous manifestos the Fama Fraternitatis and Confessio Fraternitatis andThe Chemical Wedding which is usually wrongly attributed Johann Valentin Andreae. 

From the early 1580s FB and his brother Anthony Bacon established, or were part of, a wide intelligence network stretching all over Europe (see Jardine and Stewart, The Troubled Life of FB, p. 84) which included printers and publishers and was used for the import and export of manuscripts and books. These types of networks were used by Lord Bacon to secretly despatch the manuscripts of the Fama and Confessio for publication in Cassel in Germany and The Chemical Wedding at Strasbourg.

This brilliant strategy and misdirection has continued to fool scholars for the last four hundred years about the origins of his divine Rosicrucian Brotherhood and authorship of its manifestos and other important Rosicrucian documents.

[Kate]

20 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I came across a video on YouTube that discusses this book. I'll try to watch it today.

 

OMG, this was fabulous. What a great presenter. Thanks for sharing ♥️

[Kate]

Oh this one is superb. It’s about the life and works of astrologer and sage, John Dee. What a great find this Embassy of the Free Mind channel is. I see Dan Brown is involved with them too. 

https://embassyofthefreemind.com/en/plan-your-visit

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotheca_Philosophica_Hermetica

 

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

10 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I'm having helluva fun! OMG!

So did Bacon and Khunrath know each other? My seasoned Google skills are not producing much more than what has already been mentioned; Khunrath visited Dee in 1589. Also Khunrath has some significance with Rosicrucian history as does Bacon.

Whether they met or not, I'll suggest they definitely knew of each other and had mutual friends and acquaintances.

Khunrath pops up in Baconiania (1952 page 23) and is mentioned on SirBacon.org via the search. (I was wrong last night when I said the name did not come up and thought I waited to edit the post last night to be surprised when I woke up this morning to see it posted!)

I'm pointing at the "three hundred and sixty four" because that caught my eye. You know, 364 Days in the Sonnets Pyramid design, etc. I did not have any clue it went back to Paracelsus. I know the name from basic awareness of Dee, I think. 😉

Wiki suggests Bacon was opposed to the Paracelsus or German RC movement. Or least according to Yates? Really? Wiki is not a scholarly reference or footnote, but is very popular.

Paracelsianism and Rosicrucianism

Further information: Paracelsianism

Paracelsus was especially venerated by German Rosicrucians, who regarded him as a prophet, and developed a field of systematic study of his writings, which is sometimes called "Paracelsianism", or more rarely "Paracelsism". Francis Bacon warned against Paracelsus and the Rosicrucians, judging that "the ancient opinion that man was microcosmus" had been "fantastically strained by Paracelsus and the alchemists".^[78]

Hmmm, could Frances Yates be missing something or hiding a little Truth for some reason on page 120 of this book where the above is suggested. Or maybe I am a Fool. I feel like I know Bacon, somewhat, and understand he has his public persona to uphold, but Bacon is an alchemist too I suspect on some level.

Did not the first major RC in print come from Germany? Is it even possible that Bacon would not have some part of it?

Bacon was in the circle of the elite who had inside info on what was happening in the world, and the German circle of elite were well aware of who is who in every country. Right? Am I wrong?

Is there a direct Khunrath/Bacon connection besides Dee?

I grabbed a clip from the video that I want to bring up. It may not not work, acting strange for me.

https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxw3viKtoPHZpgxourTq1daJI_ChZukOrd

Khunrath believed he received Divine revelations in his sleep. Funny thing, I have experienced the same and have mentioned it here on the B'Hive more than once.

Just me, maybe a trick I play on myself in my mind? Yet, here is another person who suggests the same thing. For me it is nice to not be the only one. LOL

What if we all can access this realm?

 

 

I also came across that suggestion before. As with all suggestion it is our duty to not unconditionally accept them, less we be caught up in a belief. German Rosicrucianism had high esteem for Bacon, but he had much more careful words about it. He liked some of it and didn't like other parts of it so much. If Maier did in fact go to England and confer the title of Imperator to Bacon this is something that originates as praise in Germany and it is symbolic. Rosy Cross is similar sounding enough for many to think they are one and the same. I suspect there isn't one timeline with one main branch here. It is not the only example of some in a group who have made efforts to appropriate themselves with Bacon as a father figure by publicly calling him that or exalting him. It is up to us to determine if Bacon is the one making a similar claim. Some modern Freemasons have made that claim about Bacon's role in speculative Freemasonry. We have to consider whether Bacon would have said these things about himself. 

If Bacon has strong connections with the German Rosicrucians it would probably mean he had strong ties with Robert Fludd. You can look to see if you can find evidence of that.

If we take the origin legends of Freemasonry as an example there are some different ones in almost all places where you find it. In France there are stories that go back to the Knights Templar, in Germany there are some which go through Germanic currents of History, in England there are some that go through York and the royal court, in Scotland you might discover legends that go back to Egypt and King Solomon and in America later there are sources that have it all beginning with Bacon. How can it be so different if all are the same? Well, I think it may help to think as these things as franchises where the franchisees are often men who favor one version of the unknown story over any other.

Rosicrucianism is a philosophical current. Anyone anywhere could have found appeal in it. It was in fact quite faddish, so at the height of it I suspect one would have wanted to identify with it for its progressive/humanist nature. I'm not so sure anyone had to sign up with a headquarters in Germany to open up a franchise. It is enough for one to operate within this philosophy. In truth Rosicrucianism flowed through Germany into other places. The roots of it are elsewhere to the East in something not called Rosicrucianism. I am not prone to suggest it brewed up from the West of Europe or out of Bacon's kitchen. Something there could have sprouted based in what had been written in Italy. The reason why all this is tied to the Rose and the Cross may or may not be discoverable. Will it mean the same thing to all people? Probably not. There are cultural ties in this.

There is probably a lot of nuance, and that makes it easy for people to not agree with generalizations.

When historians say there is no evidence for this or that we must always take from it that there is no clear evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt. There is always some evidence for things based on possibilities. You can find people clinging to possibilities in many places. To their benefit is the fact that it is just as hard to disprove their claims. When things are unfalsifiable until the suggestion is proven right we have no choice but to coexist with these suggestions. 

I'm not so sure the proof is going to be found reading books written by third parties to events which must remain unknown to them. It is a bit like trying to find the evidence for the truth in the Bible stories. Who would you turn to, and won't you find an opposing view somewhere else?

How do we know things when we can't even trust our senses in the present? Never short sell the fact that there are magicians tying to get you to unconditionally accept their suggestions at all turns.  Ultimately it must reside in you, and you should not be making the work to convince yourself either. I think it is about seeing the breadth of the possibilities and seeing how it is that many opinions can come from it. Know the landscape of what is suggested. In the end there will still be stars turning in the sky above your head if you want to find your bearings. 

[RoyalCraftiness]

14 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I'm having helluva fun! OMG!

So did Bacon and Khunrath know each other? My seasoned Google skills are not producing much more than what has already been mentioned; Khunrath visited Dee in 1589. Also Khunrath has some significance with Rosicrucian history as does Bacon.

Whether they met or not, I'll suggest they definitely knew of each other and had mutual friends and acquaintances.

Khunrath pops up in Baconiania (1952 page 23) and is mentioned on SirBacon.org via the search. (I was wrong last night when I said the name did not come up and thought I waited to edit the post last night to be surprised when I woke up this morning to see it posted!)

I'm pointing at the "three hundred and sixty four" because that caught my eye. You know, 364 Days in the Sonnets Pyramid design, etc. I did not have any clue it went back to Paracelsus. I know the name from basic awareness of Dee, I think. 😉

Wiki suggests Bacon was opposed to the Paracelsus or German RC movement. Or least according to Yates? Really? Wiki is not a scholarly reference or footnote, but is very popular.

Paracelsianism and Rosicrucianism

Further information: Paracelsianism

Paracelsus was especially venerated by German Rosicrucians, who regarded him as a prophet, and developed a field of systematic study of his writings, which is sometimes called "Paracelsianism", or more rarely "Paracelsism". Francis Bacon warned against Paracelsus and the Rosicrucians, judging that "the ancient opinion that man was microcosmus" had been "fantastically strained by Paracelsus and the alchemists".^[78]

Hmmm, could Frances Yates be missing something or hiding a little Truth for some reason on page 120 of this book where the above is suggested. Or maybe I am a Fool. I feel like I know Bacon, somewhat, and understand he has his public persona to uphold, but Bacon is an alchemist too I suspect on some level.

Did not the first major RC in print come from Germany? Is it even possible that Bacon would not have some part of it?

Bacon was in the circle of the elite who had inside info on what was happening in the world, and the German circle of elite were well aware of who is who in every country. Right? Am I wrong?

Is there a direct Khunrath/Bacon connection besides Dee?

I grabbed a clip from the video that I want to bring up. It may not not work, acting strange for me.

https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxw3viKtoPHZpgxourTq1daJI_ChZukOrd

Khunrath believed he received Divine revelations in his sleep. Funny thing, I have experienced the same and have mentioned it here on the B'Hive more than once.

Just me, maybe a trick I play on myself in my mind? Yet, here is another person who suggests the same thing. For me it is nice to not be the only one. LOL

What if we all can access this realm?

 

 

BTW, I don't know if you noticed but the work by Kunrath is 222 pages long. On page 180 you will find the last of the 365 entries in the 7th of his arguments. It's not uncommon for these esoteric works to number themselves symbolically. Bacon/Rawley did it in Sylva Sylvarum. There's a tradition in doing this that you can find in even Lewis Carroll, Thomas C. Haliburton or Herge. Your page numbering is a place where a symbolism can be riding/hiding. You'd have to have a nose for it to ever be tipped off in that direction. Its one of the places I first look when I consider a work on the esoteric.

Edited February 26 by RoyalCraftiness

[RoyalCraftiness]

4 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

BTW, I don't know if you noticed but the work by Kunrath is 222 pages long. On page 180 you will find the last of the 365 entries in the 7th of his arguments. It's not uncommon for these esoteric works to number themselves symbolically. Bacon/Rawley did it in Sylva Sylvarum. There's a tradition in doing this that you can find in even Lewis Carroll, Thomas C. Haliburton or Herge. Your page numbering is a place where a symbolism can be riding/hiding. You'd have to have a nose for it to ever be tipped off in that direction. Its one of the places I first look when I consider a work on the esoteric.

I suppose we could argue that 222/365=0.61 is an attempt to get to the golden mean of the year, so again visiting Plato's idea of the divided line which delineates between things under the Sun and under the influence of the "divine luminosity".  It would do so while being in 2:1 proportion with 111 which is of course Agrippa's magic square constant for the Sun. If we took it for a frequency we would have one half of A4, so an octave below it. It's of course related to 666 and 444 by 3:2, the Pythagorean harmonic. Not too surprisingly, we can observe how close that is to the suggestion of the coordinates 44.4N and 66.6 W. When I mentioned Bacon had good reason to suggest this coordinate pairing if he wanted to stay true to some alchemical ideas it's along these lines of identifying numbers with high coincidence in the "Opera Omnia". 

Where I think we can get further insight is how this relates to eclipses. You can observe 222 synodic months between eclipses in the Saros cycle. The next month (the 223rd)  will coincide with the next eclipse, so it becomes a tool to forecast them. The coming together of the Earth, Sun and moon in the syzygy is of high alchemical importance. The first observers of the Saros cycle eclipses were the Chaldeans in Babylonian times. It is rather humbling to think they had figured this out, but in fact it is quite easy to do if you do maths with continued fractions like they were prone to doing. it comes out of the ratio 484/223=2.1704 where 223 is synodic months and 484 is draconic months. Whenever you get an integer number of draconic and synodic months which work out to 2.1704 you will have an eclipse. This is fact an approximation which has been better refined, but it works fine in the small enough time scales (from one eclipse to the next few occurrences). Bacon's possible interest in the Saros cycle eclipse of 1651 would have been informed by this sort of very basic algebra. It's why the magi were eclipse chasers, among other things. Their ability to predict them gave them quite a reputation. Add to that all the meaning that was added to the events in the cases where they would use them to suggest the heavens were announcing things or confirming them and you have a recipe for having that appear like magic to mere mortals.

Edited February 26 by RoyalCraftiness

[Light-of-Truth]

4 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

I suppose we could argue that 222/365=0.61 is an attempt to get to the golden mean of the year, so again visiting Plato's idea of the divided line which delineates between things under the Sun and under the influence of the "divine luminosity".  It would do so while being in 2:1 proportion with 111 which is of course Agrippa's magic square constant for the Sun. If we took it for a frequency we would have one half of A4, so an octave below it. It's of course related to 666 and 444 by 3:2, the Pythagorean harmonic. Not too surprisingly, we can observe how close that is to the suggestion of the coordinates 44.4N and 66.6 W. When I mentioned Bacon had good reason to suggest this coordinate pairing if he wanted to stay true to some alchemical ideas it's along these lines of identifying numbers with high coincidence in the "Opera Omnia". 

Hmmm...

222/365 is 0.60821917...

222/364 is 0.6098901... which is more exact to the 0.61 you mention. 364 is of interest to me because there are 364 Days in the Sonnet Pyramid design.

I pointed to this in an old Baconiana (page 23) about Paracelsus:

"His writings, to the number of three hundred and sixty-four, spread all over Europe, were on the counsel of the Archibishop of Cologne, collected after his death, by Huser, and published at the expense of the Elector. They were marked with the letter “ R ” or with a rose."

Day 222 in the Sonnet Pyramid begins at Midnight at the beginning of the 18th Tier after end of the 17th Tier ends in a 28 Tier Pyramid. That design is basically where every 13 Days a new Tier begins. It is the major 14 Tier design divided by 2. 13 Day Tiers is as small you can get with perfect transitions at Midnight (13 x 28 = 364). It's not as perfect as the 14 Tier design (26 x 14 = 364) because every 13 days is only 5.5 Sonnets. The 14 Tier design syncs every 11 Sonnets and 154 Lines. But the 28 Tier design still has a vast realm of coincidences and word significance even though I rarely mention it.

I believe the math still works for the 444 and 666 as I see them pop up in my work. Plus the letter "R" is the 17th letter which may have some connection to Paracelsus using that letter to Seal his 364 writings. I have not had time to dig in though. And won't this week.

Of course 365 is the number most of us think about in regards to a year formula. You, CJ, have brought up how 360 (60) was a mathematical base in the very early days, and it may be that 364 was in place 400 years ago yet to be understood.

I will say that the number 365 and 0 (zero) do match up in places. I see it. In the past weeks I'm pretty sure I've described how if we go from high Noon to high Noon, we have 364 Days in a typical year. The Midnight to Noon the first Day and Noon to Midnight the last Day is Day 365 or 0 depending on how you want look at it or count.

Maybe Paracelsus was aware of that concept?

It's all so fascinating!!

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

16 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Hmmm...

222/365 is 0.60821917...

222/364 is 0.6098901... which is more exact to the 0.61 you mention. 364 is of interest to me because there are 364 Days in the Sonnet Pyramid design.

I pointed to this in an old Baconiana (page 23) about Paracelsus:

"His writings, to the number of three hundred and sixty-four, spread all over Europe, were on the counsel of the Archibishop of Cologne, collected after his death, by Huser, and published at the expense of the Elector. They were marked with the letter “ R ” or with a rose."

Day 222 in the Sonnet Pyramid begins at Midnight at the beginning of the 18th Tier after end of the 17th Tier ends in a 28 Tier Pyramid. That design is basically where every 13 Days a new Tier begins. It is the major 14 Tier design divided by 2. 13 Day Tiers is as small you can get with perfect transitions at Midnight (13 x 28 = 364). It's not as perfect as the 14 Tier design (26 x 14 = 364) because every 13 days is only 5.5 Sonnets. The 14 Tier design syncs every 11 Sonnets and 154 Lines. But the 28 Tier design still has a vast realm of coincidences and word significance even though I rarely mention it.

I believe the math still works for the 444 and 666 as I see them pop up in my work. Plus the letter "R" is the 17th letter which may have some connection to Paracelsus using that letter to Seal his 364 writings. I have not had time to dig in though. And won't this week.

Of course 365 is the number most of us think about in regards to a year formula. You, CJ, have brought up how 360 (60) was a mathematical base in the very early days, and it may be that 364 was in place 400 years ago yet to be understood.

I will say that the number 365 and 0 (zero) do match up in places. I see it. In the past weeks I'm pretty sure I've described how if we go from high Noon to high Noon, we have 364 Days in a typical year. The Midnight to Noon the first Day and Noon to Midnight the last Day is Day 365 or 0 depending on how you want look at it or count.

Maybe Paracelsus was aware of that concept?

It's all so fascinating!!

 

It's not hard to see why 364 days would have some appeal on the basis of it's proper factorization. 2, 4, 7, 13, 14, 26, 28, 52, 91, 182.  In that we can see how useful it would have been to think of 13 months of 28 days (a lunar cycle which is divisible by 4, and an even period for each of its quarters). You get to have 52 equal weeks of 7 days in that year and four seasons of 91 days. This is much more appealing than 365 which has a much simpler proper factorization of 5 and 73. You can't really do a lot with that to divide the year into useful equal divisions.

It's a step up in precision from 360 days which offers you more factors than any other number: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 15, 18, 20, 24, 30, 36, 40, 45, 60, 72, 90, 120, 180.  

In this regard 364 gives you a bit of both worlds. You could think of a year as 364 + 1 and capture the same idea as 153 +1 with the number of Sonnets. 

What I assume these early minds were chasing was maximum elegance which would speak to cyclical harmony. If I was to ask you to give me the closest number to a solar year in days which involved the quaternary (1,2,3 and 4) you would have to involve 360. And they did count by using a base 60 system. You end up with triangles with internal angles that sum to 180 instead of 182 (which is not divisible by 3) and squares with 90 degree angles instead of 91 degree angles which are not divisible by 4. For a while there must have been a tension between what is most useful and what is actually seen. We can also ask ourselves to what degree the solar year was known. It was apparently known to be 365 +1/4 day as early as 330 BCE.

As long as you account for the year you wish by adding days at the end of your calendar you are fine. The Egyptians and the Romans did this. It eventually was noticed that things had gone out of whack since 1/4 day isn't precise enough either.

The Antikythera mechanism displays an Egyptian year reading with 12 months of 30 days for 360 + 5 intercalary days. The Greek one is assumed to be 365 1/4 days, but part of the mechanism are missing to confirm that. The largest gear in the mechanism has 223 teeth to display the Saros cycle eclipses by using the synodic 29.5 days for the lunar cycle.

Kunrath could have presumably used 223 pages, but I think that for reasons of elegance and maximum coincidence 222 is simply better. Accounting for 111 would have been very desirable, especially if 222 is precise enough to suggest other secondary things like the golden mean. The history of the esoteric sciences is often about fudging numbers. It has to be, because the Universe doesn't actually get described in simple geometric laws. It is more about chaos, a concept that Kunrath potentially began to grasp. A near infinity of relationships that add up to something which looks a lot like simple geometric regularity...

Edited February 27 by RoyalCraftiness

[Light-of-Truth]

On 2/26/2023 at 6:52 AM, Kate said:

Oh this one is superb. It’s about the life and works of astrologer and sage, John Dee. What a great find this Embassy of the Free Mind channel is. I see Dan Brown is involved with them too. 

I enjoyed it as well! The guy is very easy to listen to. He knows his material, so never faking what he knows. And what he knows has a lot of new stuff for me. I want to seek him out to join us here!

Google, being the awesome resource and powerful modern oo7 Super Secret spy somehow worked with academia.edu so this morning I had a business email that linked to an article from 2005 by Peter J Forshaw the wonderful teacher in the videos I watched. So I had to bite, how could I not click the link?

You may need a user account:

The Early Alchemical Reception of John Dee's Monas Hieroglyphica

https://www.academia.edu/423667/The_Early_Alchemical_Reception_of_John_Dees_Monas_Hieroglyphica?email_work_card=title&li=0

I took a glance and had a hard time stopping. Immediately I wanted to share this early clip:

This caught my attention in a big way referring to what Yates wrote, "...Francis Bacon 'nowhere mentions Dee, and nowhere cites his famous Monas hieroglyphica'".

Yea, as far as I know he was correct. I see Dee and his influence in the Sonnets painfully described by Bacon and have shared a lot here. Yet, over many years I have looked for the "public" Bacon/Dee connections and it is strangely missing. It's strange like the missing mentions of Shakespeare by Bacon. Bacon wrote no thoughts when Willy died? That's weird.

There is the one single documented fact about Bacon and Dee meeting, from Dee's personal diary. I am most familiar with the SirBacon.org mention I have known as the first Dee as 007 article I learned. Funny this may be the most plagiarized article on the internet, written by our own Lawrence Gerald and his late friend who I met on a nice California afternoon D.W. Copper.

A Bond for All the Ages: Sir Francis Bacon and John Dee : the Original 007

https://sirbacon.org/links/dblohseven.html

Little has come down to us in terms of records of Francis Bacon and John Dee knowing each other but on the afternoon of August 11, 1582 there was an entry in Dee's journal that they met at Mortlake. Bacon was 21 years old at the time and was accompanied by a Mr. Phillipes, a top cryptographer in the employ of Sir Francis Walsingham who headed up the early days of England's secret service. They were there according to Ewen MacDuff, in an article, "After Some Time Be Past" in 'Baconiana', (Dec.1983)" to find out the truth about the ancient Hebrew art of the Gematria- one of the oldest cipher systems known, dating from 700 B.C. They were seeking to discuss this with Dee because he was not only one of the leading adepts of this field, but a regular practitioner in certain levels of Gematria." Also, David Kahn in The Codebreakers suggests that because of Dee's great interest in the 13th century alchemist Roger Bacon, that he may have introduced Bacon to the works of Roger Bacon,"which may help explain the similarities in their thought."

I spent most of morning neglecting work and seeking the Truth and ultimate source of this highly important Knowledge.

AFTER SOME TIME BE PAST By Ewen MacDuff (Baconiana December 1983, page 47)

https://sirbacon.org/archives/baconiana/1983_Baconiana_No.183.pdf

Well, that does say a lot and I am totally on board!

This pops up as well in a multitude of places:

https://archive.org/stream/transactionsofco3431coll/transactionsofco3431coll_djvu.txt

See page 424 and 425:

https://archive.org/details/transactionsofco3431coll/page/424/mode/2up

Dee  had  no  creative  power  nor  a  constructive  mind  and  has written  little  that  is  original  or  of  intrinsic  importance,  but  his studies  and  activities  were  of  great  value.  From  his  youth  he had  access  to  many  manuscripts  of  the  works  of  Roger  Bacon, even  to  some  which  have  not  come  down  to  us.  He  was  absorbed in  the  study  of  these  manuscripts,  and  his  repeated  efforts  to promote  a  revival  of  interest  in  Bacon  met  with  undoubted success.  In  his  efforts  to  make  Bacon's  philosophy  known  to his  contemporaries  he  aroused  the  interest  of  several  prominent men.  For  example,  at  the  Court  of  Elizabeth  he  met  Francis Bacon,  whose  father  was  one  of  Dee's  friends,  and  it  is  recorded in  his  Diary  (August  11,  1582)  that  Francis  Bacon,  who  at  that time  was  only  twenty-one,  called  on  him  at  Mortlake.  Knowing Dee's  enthusiasm  for  Roger  Bacon,  it  is  not  too  much  to  suggest that  he  introduced  the  two  Bacons  to  each  other.  This  at  any  rate  provides  an  explanation  of  the  origin  of  the  remarkable influence  of  Roger  Bacon's  ideas,  which  can  be  traced  in  the  writings of  Francis  Bacon.  This  influence  has  been  noted  by  many  modern writers,  but  unfortunately  it  has  yet  to  receive  adequate  discussion. The  visit  to  Dee's  library,  in  August,  1582,  is  particularly significant  when  we  remember  the  testimony  of  Francis Bacon  that  he  began  to  work  on  his  Instauration  of  Philosophy  in the  following  year,  1583,  as  was  noticed  by  an  American  student, Miss  Mary  Esther  Trueblood,  of  Mt.  Holyoke  College,  in  an article  written  by  her,  "John  Dee  and  His  'Fruitful  Preface.'"1 This  bringing  together  of  the  two  great  Bacons  surely  entitles Dee  to  a  niche  in  the  history  of  human  knowledge.

So we know Dee's diary describes this historic meeting. What does his diary say?? What did they talk about? Oh my! How exciting! What does the diary say???

From what I can find, this is the entire diary entry:

Page 17...

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19553/19553-h/19553-h.htm#page16

Aug. 11th, Mr. Bacon and Mr. Phillips of the court cam.

Nothing else. That's it.

Dee is in the Sonnets, I can effectively demonstrate it but won't even kid myself that I can prove anything. Dee's ideas are in Bacon's works, and same thing, one can demonstrate but no proving anything.

I want to pursue looking for clues! But would it be Spy vs. Spy? My trying to open up a secret from what was one of the best Spy networks to ever exist. James Bond, 007 ain't got nothing on Dee, Bacon Bros, Elizabeth, so on. LOL

Is the Monas woven into and concealed in the Sonnets? Likely I suggest, but I've never looked. I will say Dee is well represented there.

 

The article by Dr. Forshaw is worth a read. The videos cover most, but he writes as he speaks. Very good article. This is the conclusion hoping it does not spoil your read. 😉

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

You would think that since both lectured on Euclid's Elements that they would have, at some point, discussed that sort of thing.

It would be interesting to know what Dee had to say about gematria, because we still really don't know from where it sprung. Examples of words that came into being because of a desire to express a number aren't that easy to identify. That to me is how it ought to work. Taking a word and finding its value doesn't tell you a whole lot about whhether that was intended to be that way.

An example of it would be: taking the Sun as an example, you'd want a word that would capture 365 so you would create one which summed to 365, perhaps by using an extension of a word for which you already had a made that sort of pairing, let's say "light". The process starts with concepts which are basically rooted in number. You may have wanted 72 for God, and in doing so you can build onto it concepts where 72 is a factor (144, 360, 1080...). You'd produce many geometric ideas where God appeared in the geometry favored by the sexagesimal system.

With gematria it is impossible to know if the value of a word is intended since you would have to limit yourself to one word per value to remove such guess work.

The English network of spies in Europe, and especially in Spain, was made up, in part, of Jews who obviously were capable of reading and writing Hebrew. I'm assuming the spymaster would have been interested in knowing of the possibilities with it that could have been exploitable.

[Light-of-Truth]

37 minutes ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

It would be interesting to know what Dee had to say about gematria, because we still really don't know from where it sprung.

It is an interesting fact that MONAS is 58 Simple cipher which is the Simple cipher of JOHN DEE and MONAS HIEROGLYPHICA is 188 Simple cipher which is the Kay cipher of JOHN DEE.

http://www.light-of-truth.com/ciphers.html

Dr. Forshaw mentions that the Monas book contains information about gematria. Of course the book title being a cipher signature for JOHN DEE is impossible to prove, but it would seem it is likely knowing Dee was interested in this kind of work. Its quite a coincidence at the least.

 

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

4 minutes ago, Light-of-Truth said:

It is an interesting fact that MONAS is 58 Simple cipher which is the Simple cipher of JOHN DEE and MONAS HIEROGLYPHICA is 188 Simple cipher which is the Kay cipher of JOHN DEE.

http://www.light-of-truth.com/ciphers.html

Dr. Forshaw mentions that the Monas book contains information about gematria. Of course the book title being a cipher signature for JOHN DEE is impossible to prove, but it would seem it is likely knowing Dee was interested in this kind of work. Its quite a coincidence at the least.

 

 

Luckily for him, he was the coiner of the expression, so he could work to make that compute in two ways by originating a word.  That would be clever, but doable with some judicious fiddling. Intent is certainly suggested. I'd not err on the side of saying God meant it to be that way. It's rather interesting that 40 and 117 are there also. Should we conclude that individual ciphers were tailored/defined to produce the desired result? After all, John Dee is his name. If he wants to be associated with 40 then why not involve a short cipher that does that. What do we know about the origins of the short cipher? What would all other known ciphers show. Probably no coincidence...

It does tell us quite a bit about the state of mind of the individual if he did intend it. It means he feels he can use the coincidences to advance the sort of suggestion already being made with number coincidences in nature, or that he himself is a force of nature sanctioned by God.  It allows other suggestions to be made about his own mystical origins. It's the sort of trick that one would expect to see from a man who was versed in the occult.

Suggesting Bacon was playing this game is another thing. He obviously benefited from having a full name that summed to 100 and included 33, so he would have been shrewd to hunt down some symbolism that worked to give that some  meaning if he wanted some of his own to depict (I submit that we are all tickled when we are involved in an interesting coincidence of some sort). It's got some obvious potential with the coming together of Sun and Moon. Centuries are things that Bacon involved in Sylva Sylvarum. The second century in that work pertains to music, and the entry for 111 is about how there is also pleasing harmony in globes and pyramids. I've said it before that Bacon likely looked for a tranche of 100 degrees of longitude on the globe which he found elegance in, and which involved an idea of Sun and Moon coming together. Once you find these things you can see how far you can push the coincidences to create something very elegant. Bacon does say that what is pleasing to the senses is harmonious in the same way musical notes are. In that regard a demonstration bathed in coincidences is like a beautiful song. He mentions which notes--the fifth and the fourth are most pleasing. The fifth and the fourth can be related to the century by involving 20 (proper factors 2,4,5,10) which is itself a fifth of C. Two tens are TT and 4x5 is one octave away from 8x5 which was a used as a fractional approximation for Phi (which relates to the height of the pyramid). You can go very far with 20 to bridge a lot of ideas.

His entry 108, to not be slighted, involved 2 and 7 specifically, as one might have expected for the relation of the perfect ashlar's perimeter (108) to its side (27) to be paid homage. Is there intent in all that? It would appear to be in play. How far does it go? This is where one can potentially get himself in trouble with actual coincidences. 

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

16 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

I enjoyed it as well! The guy is very easy to listen to. He knows his material, so never faking what he knows. And what he knows has a lot of new stuff for me. I want to seek him out to join us here!

Google, being the awesome resource and powerful modern oo7 Super Secret spy somehow worked with academia.edu so this morning I had a business email that linked to an article from 2005 by Peter J Forshaw the wonderful teacher in the videos I watched. So I had to bite, how could I not click the link?

You may need a user account:

The Early Alchemical Reception of John Dee's Monas Hieroglyphica

https://www.academia.edu/423667/The_Early_Alchemical_Reception_of_John_Dees_Monas_Hieroglyphica?email_work_card=title&li=0

I took a glance and had a hard time stopping. Immediately I wanted to share this early clip:

This caught my attention in a big way referring to what Yates wrote, "...Francis Bacon 'nowhere mentions Dee, and nowhere cites his famous Monas hieroglyphica'".

Yea, as far as I know he was correct. I see Dee and his influence in the Sonnets painfully described by Bacon and have shared a lot here. Yet, over many years I have looked for the "public" Bacon/Dee connections and it is strangely missing. It's strange like the missing mentions of Shakespeare by Bacon. Bacon wrote no thoughts when Willy died? That's weird.

There is the one single documented fact about Bacon and Dee meeting, from Dee's personal diary. I am most familiar with the SirBacon.org mention I have known as the first Dee as 007 article I learned. Funny this may be the most plagiarized article on the internet, written by our own Lawrence Gerald and his late friend who I met on a nice California afternoon D.W. Copper.

A Bond for All the Ages: Sir Francis Bacon and John Dee : the Original 007

https://sirbacon.org/links/dblohseven.html

Little has come down to us in terms of records of Francis Bacon and John Dee knowing each other but on the afternoon of August 11, 1582 there was an entry in Dee's journal that they met at Mortlake. Bacon was 21 years old at the time and was accompanied by a Mr. Phillipes, a top cryptographer in the employ of Sir Francis Walsingham who headed up the early days of England's secret service. They were there according to Ewen MacDuff, in an article, "After Some Time Be Past" in 'Baconiana', (Dec.1983)" to find out the truth about the ancient Hebrew art of the Gematria- one of the oldest cipher systems known, dating from 700 B.C. They were seeking to discuss this with Dee because he was not only one of the leading adepts of this field, but a regular practitioner in certain levels of Gematria." Also, David Kahn in The Codebreakers suggests that because of Dee's great interest in the 13th century alchemist Roger Bacon, that he may have introduced Bacon to the works of Roger Bacon,"which may help explain the similarities in their thought."

I spent most of morning neglecting work and seeking the Truth and ultimate source of this highly important Knowledge.

AFTER SOME TIME BE PAST By Ewen MacDuff (Baconiana December 1983, page 47)

https://sirbacon.org/archives/baconiana/1983_Baconiana_No.183.pdf

Well, that does say a lot and I am totally on board!

This pops up as well in a multitude of places:

https://archive.org/stream/transactionsofco3431coll/transactionsofco3431coll_djvu.txt

See page 424 and 425:

https://archive.org/details/transactionsofco3431coll/page/424/mode/2up

Dee  had  no  creative  power  nor  a  constructive  mind  and  has written  little  that  is  original  or  of  intrinsic  importance,  but  his studies  and  activities  were  of  great  value.  From  his  youth  he had  access  to  many  manuscripts  of  the  works  of  Roger  Bacon, even  to  some  which  have  not  come  down  to  us.  He  was  absorbed in  the  study  of  these  manuscripts,  and  his  repeated  efforts  to promote  a  revival  of  interest  in  Bacon  met  with  undoubted success.  In  his  efforts  to  make  Bacon's  philosophy  known  to his  contemporaries  he  aroused  the  interest  of  several  prominent men.  For  example,  at  the  Court  of  Elizabeth  he  met  Francis Bacon,  whose  father  was  one  of  Dee's  friends,  and  it  is  recorded in  his  Diary  (August  11,  1582)  that  Francis  Bacon,  who  at  that time  was  only  twenty-one,  called  on  him  at  Mortlake.  Knowing Dee's  enthusiasm  for  Roger  Bacon,  it  is  not  too  much  to  suggest that  he  introduced  the  two  Bacons  to  each  other.  This  at  any  rate  provides  an  explanation  of  the  origin  of  the  remarkable influence  of  Roger  Bacon's  ideas,  which  can  be  traced  in  the  writings of  Francis  Bacon.  This  influence  has  been  noted  by  many  modern writers,  but  unfortunately  it  has  yet  to  receive  adequate  discussion. The  visit  to  Dee's  library,  in  August,  1582,  is  particularly significant  when  we  remember  the  testimony  of  Francis Bacon  that  he  began  to  work  on  his  Instauration  of  Philosophy  in the  following  year,  1583,  as  was  noticed  by  an  American  student, Miss  Mary  Esther  Trueblood,  of  Mt.  Holyoke  College,  in  an article  written  by  her,  "John  Dee  and  His  'Fruitful  Preface.'"1 This  bringing  together  of  the  two  great  Bacons  surely  entitles Dee  to  a  niche  in  the  history  of  human  knowledge.

So we know Dee's diary describes this historic meeting. What does his diary say?? What did they talk about? Oh my! How exciting! What does the diary say???

From what I can find, this is the entire diary entry:

Page 17...

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19553/19553-h/19553-h.htm#page16

Aug. 11th, Mr. Bacon and Mr. Phillips of the court cam.

Nothing else. That's it.

Dee is in the Sonnets, I can effectively demonstrate it but won't even kid myself that I can prove anything. Dee's ideas are in Bacon's works, and same thing, one can demonstrate but no proving anything.

I want to pursue looking for clues! But would it be Spy vs. Spy? My trying to open up a secret from what was one of the best Spy networks to ever exist. James Bond, 007 ain't got nothing on Dee, Bacon Bros, Elizabeth, so on. LOL

Is the Monas woven into and concealed in the Sonnets? Likely I suggest, but I've never looked. I will say Dee is well represented there.

 

The article by Dr. Forshaw is worth a read. The videos cover most, but he writes as he speaks. Very good article. This is the conclusion hoping it does not spoil your read. 😉

 

007 is certainly an interesting later literary reference by Ian Fleming. Have you ever looked into Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's works of Sherlock Holmes?

His second volume was titled "The Sign of the Four". The sign of the 4 (also called the staff of mercury in Germany) is itself a symbol of Alchemy. There are some interesting parallels in that story which revolve around the search for a hidden treasure. It involves the suggestion of the pearl (of knowledge) and the number 6, a map of a citadel (the alchemical citadel suggestion), a boat called "Aurora" (the title of Boehme's very influential work of German mysticism) and other very interesting coincidences. The name of the main character is Mary Morstan.  That's interestingly very similar to the name that Thomas C. Haliburton places on the tombstone in his chapter which deals with TT. He used Mary Merton. I am assuming here that a name in MM was the point (MM, being the Mount Moriah of Jerusalem and Freemasonic fame). MM for a name on a tomb may very well refer us to "memento morti", remember death. That might work as a name for a murder mystery too (another MM, lol).

Holmes' famous words:

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

...are to be found in Chapter six on page 111. Not a bad place for this pearl of wisdom.

Anyway, I am one who does suspect that these older esoteric mysteries have served as inspiration for a very long time.

 

Edited February 28 by RoyalCraftiness

[Light-of-Truth]

4 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

Suggesting Bacon was playing this game is another thing. He obviously benefited from having a full name that summed to 100 and included 33, so he would have been shrewd to hunt down some symbolism that worked to give that some  meaning if he wanted some of his own to depict (I submit that we are all tickled when we are involved in an interesting coincidence of some sort).

Let me share my belief, being well aware of everything you have said about beliefs.

1. A while before Bacon was born Elizabeth asked Dee for a name for her future son who would be King of England one day to carry on the Tudor name.
2. Dee offered her the name "William Tudor", and explained that when he became "William Tudor I" the numbers would be the very powerful Seal numbers 157 Simple and 287 Kaye and William would be her Seal forever.
3. Elizabeth wished for her son to be remembered as the brightest literary genius to ever live, and to be an important part of the future of humanity.
4. Dee instructed her to use her "Will" to make that happen. Everything she wished for would depend on her using her Will to make it happen.
5. Later Dee recognized she was being impatient and he consulted her to be careful. Elizabeth, angry, said to him, "I Will have my Will!"
6. When Elizabeth became pregnant when not prepared publicly, Dee was involved in having William moved to the Bacon's home. It was easy to build 100 from 33. The name "Francis" was coined. Bacon is 33, Francis Bacon is 100. It is a perfect solution to a wild situation. Thank Dee for that, and he absolutely knew how to do it.

A lot of this came to me from studying the Sonnets. I was aware that Bacon may have been born to Elizabeth before I worked all this out. The key elements came in dialog that what to me felt like it was with Dee himself telling the story.

What do you say, a "belief" is like magic? Beware magicians who trick you into believing something. In my case I am the magician that has tricked myself into believing the above. Funny thing it the magic keeps snowballing and getting more intricate.

Yet there is this one thing I can't shake. The experience I had with Dee, while gazing into a Tree of Life drawing I made with a Diamond in the Daʻat position. Dee as the farthest thing from my mind, I had barely even heard of him at that point.

It was a voice that spoke. The voice said, "Dee, I am 'on Dee." I said, "If you are Dee, tell me a story."

 

[RoyalCraftiness]

18 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Let me share my belief, being well aware of everything you have said about beliefs.

1. A while before Bacon was born Elizabeth asked Dee for a name for her future son who would be King of England one day to carry on the Tudor name.
2. Dee offered her the name "William Tudor", and explained that when he became "William Tudor I" the numbers would be the very powerful Seal numbers 157 Simple and 287 Kaye and William would be her Seal forever.
3. Elizabeth wished for her son to be remembered as the brightest literary genius to ever live, and to be an important part of the future of humanity.
4. Dee instructed her to use her "Will" to make that happen. Everything she wished for would depend on her using her Will to make it happen.
5. Later Dee recognized she was being impatient and he consulted her to be careful. Elizabeth, angry, said to him, "I Will have my Will!"
6. When Elizabeth became pregnant when not prepared publicly, Dee was involved in having William moved to the Bacon's home. It was easy to build 100 from 33. The name "Francis" was coined. Bacon is 33, Francis Bacon is 100. It is a perfect solution to a wild situation. Thank Dee for that, and he absolutely knew how to do it.

A lot of this came to me from studying the Sonnets. I was aware that Bacon may have been born to Elizabeth before I worked all this out. The key elements came in dialog that what to me felt like it was with Dee himself telling the story.

What do you say, a "belief" is like magic? Beware magicians who trick you into believing something. In my case I am the magician that has tricked myself into believing the above. Funny thing it the magic keeps snowballing and getting more intricate.

Yet there is this one thing I can't shake. The experience I had with Dee, while gazing into a Tree of Life drawing I made with a Diamond in the Daʻat position. Dee as the farthest thing from my mind, I had barely even heard of him at that point.

It was a voice that spoke. The voice said, "Dee, I am 'on Dee." I said, "If you are Dee, tell me a story."

 

Your mind is the architect of your own experience.  It is possible for you to hear and even see John Dee, and that would have nothing to do with mental defect, so fear not talking about it. It is in the sphere of what is possible with minds. However, our individual experiences are not faithful witnesses to what is real to all other observers. 

It is highly unlikely that you would have experienced John Dee in any degree of specific detail had you never heard of him. Having established a conceptual relationship with this character allows for a range of possibilities of experience. 

Something akin to the relationship Elizabeth had with Dee had an equivalent in modern times with Nancy Reagan. The Reagans, to Nancy's insistence, involved an astrologer in their daily planning all the way back to their Hollywood days before Reagan became governor of California. When Reagan swore an oath it was on a day that had been settled on astrologically. Same thing with his major speeches for the rest of his career. It may interest you to know that Reagan grew fond of the number 33 this way, that events like the Iran hostage situation were not settled as early as would have been possible in favor of that being resolved on the 444th day (a resolution was delayed for almost 2 weeks to make that coincide with a time which was supposed to be politically beneficial to the president). It only got worse after Reagan was shot. Nancy had an astrologer on a retainer and routinely oversaw the president's schedule. On some days he didn't even show up to work based on the stars. 

Can we say that any of this isn't real? People who are respected have the ability to shape what is real in those who respect them. The magic is not produced by the astrologer. The magic is what happens in the mind of the person with experiences. 

You don't have to testify to any of this for me to accept that you had an experience/feeling. I know this sort of thing from  my own experience, but in my case these things have come, in time, to not impress anything in me but wonder about how the mind works. I don't trust my experiences should have a meaning to others. When we are involved in something where feel a large degree of coincidence is involved we can almost immediately default to deducing there is meaning in it. That is what happens with minds that are working in "symbolic culture". Symbol is our currency and the mind is never as satisfied as when it produces recognition of a pattern in an area where we struggle to see patterns. 

It is a common enough thing for people who are devoted to studying one individual to think they are a reincarnation of that individual, that they have some experiential link to them, that they were meant to continue the work of the individual, that their choice were guided from that individual's selection... It would be interesting to do a blind survey of Baconians and report what would be the result of asking them if they felt a strong personal relationship to Francis Bacon. One probably doesn't have to be done. By virtue on knowing how the mind works we know what we would find. Those who were somehow convinced they were on a Bacon led mission would be counted in the demographic to represent that. 

The feelings you have, when reported on here, will resonate. They would do the opposite somewhere else where it could very well be deduced you suffered from severe mental defect, lol. Great minds think alike in as much as they will always find minds which will think that when they congregate. 

Dee does not impress me with his esotericism, and never has. It is therefore doubtful I would ever have a Dee experience I would value. However, I do fancy the study of how it is we come to believe or think we know things. I'll let you know If I ever come to grips with that, lol. For all the impossibility of knowing in the world it is truly remarkable how many people will claim to know things. We have Youtube to testify to that. Finding sympathetic souls is akin to cashing-in within a capitalist society. Dee cashed-in in his day. More power to him for having done so. He changed the course of History which was not carved in stone.

 

Edited March 1 by RoyalCraftiness

[Light-of-Truth]

8 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

It is highly unlikely that you would have experienced John Dee in any degree of specific detail had you never heard of him. Having established a conceptual relationship with this character allows for a range of possibilities of experience. 

I will say I knew who he was when he popped in. 😉

Funny, for several years prior to learning about Bacon which was a while before I heard of Dee, I was living in a Carlos Castenda world as a Shaman in training, in my mind. Nature was my teacher, and a bit of cerebral candy whether plant, fungi, or molecule.

One of the things I did alone in the wilderness was send visions back in time. Bridges, road cuts, railroad tracks, something to show the future of that spot to whoever received in the past. I'd already be in a higher state of mind, and would just send whatever I was looking at back aiming at whoever was in that spot or near by maybe up to 10 thousand years or more before. Few times I really felt like I hit. I'd quiet my brain, saw myself as a lens, and sent back. Easy like pie, not fighting, I just let it happen. Modern reality went through my eyes and it was to be seen by mammoth hunters, or others who lived in the area over all these thousands of years leaving their stone tools.

Fun years!

I never ever thought to open myself to the future. Not once, ever. Even now kind of laughing, I'm not interested. My Shamanic time connection was sharing with the past.

Years later discovering that Dee and Kelly were actually VERY serious about sharing with their future, after Dee shared the story of William Tudor, it absolutely takes a huge place in my basis of reality. I try to understand, examine how "time travel" in thought is possible. Dee seems to suggest that certain numbers can help, from what I have learned.

One day it will be on the news that some brilliant elder named Marvin along with his II solved time and travel mysteries and now the public can visit any period ever in their mind and communicate, past and future.

(II is Inorganic Intelligence. AI, or Artificial Intelligence was deemed a ridiculous term and was not used after the late 2020's...)

Seriously though, we talk about what we can not explain. Its not that what we and those like Dee talk about can not be real, or even be a repeatable scientific experiment, it just means we cannot explain it with what we know today. We cannot explain a lot of things today. So much on the verge of our Knowledge, but we are still so primitive!

Is telepathic time travel something real? Is it possible? If it is we can't explain it very well. Quantum physicists are inching towards some answers about all this; time and space. Time and space are merely a layer of the veil. I say it can be pierced. But then, OMG, what is the next veil made of??

 

[Kate]

I have got an absolute gem for you. Someone sent it to me. You have to watch all the way through. Touches on everything. We need to get in touch with this man, Joost Ritman- a Rosicrucian - and find his thoughts on FB and what treasures he’s got in his VAST collection.

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/4LIy16Ikq9Y

[RoyalCraftiness]

20 hours ago, Kate said:

I have got an absolute gem for you. Someone sent it to me. You have to watch all the way through. Touches on everything. We need to get in touch with this man, Joost Ritman- a Rosicrucian - and find his thoughts on FB and what treasures he’s got in his VAST collection.

Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/4LIy16Ikq9Y

A great view for book lovers. I have only watched part of it and am very tickled by both the commentary and the eye candy.

He drops a very interesting comment when he says that the person of Hermes Trismegistus is referred to at the Saqqara pyramid (that would be a very early reference). That is not what most scholars would tell you, but I do suspect the character is partly in reference to the Egyptian man-God and polymath Imhotep who is responsible for the building of the stone block structures for the Pharaoh Djoser. If ever there was a real man who was in the mold of Hermes Trismegistus he is a good candidate. Otherwise, people do seem to think he was a mash up of Greek and Egyptian deities.

I immediately noticed the work of Basil Valentine which I was reading yesterday, the one with the twelve keys. That work seems to be the inspiration for Eirenaeus Philalethes' later works where he described his experiments in producing the Philosopher's stone. The physical experiments mimic the alchemy of the spiritual which is found in the earlier works.

Have only seen the first 30 minutes and will watch the rest later, but definitely worth viewing.

There's already talk about Fludd. Fludd is said to have been given a Rosicrucian title by Michael Maier at the very same time some allege Bacon was given the honorary title of Imperator (father figure) of Rosicrucians.  it is why I have always encouraged people to seek the link, if any exists, with Robert Fludd. Fludd had been trained by Maier in Germany as a physician/surgeon. In Fludd's works we see many or the ideas of the German Rosicrucians and astronomers. As noted, he Christianizes many of the ideas and that is something that we see present in some of Bacon's works' cover illustrations. Reading Bacon, you don't quite get a sense that he is talking to us in alchemical terms, though. He is much more focused on the production and dissemination of knowledge with a method, as opposed to inferring knowledge with occult references. Bacon speaks of the imposture of the words of the old heretics in my favorite quote of his:

It would seem that Bacon would have been shrewd enough to take from it what was valuable and cast out the rest if he could not find a reason to keep it. We are being abused by the Hermeticists is what he suggests. This lends me to believe that Bacon was much more of a Christian mystic than anything else. He seems to not mind the Hebrew ideas in the Christianized Kabbalah, for example.  In that he likely saw a way to train men to be founded on the belief in the primacy of the God of the Old Testament.  Hard to say, though. What Bacon writes isn't conducive to thinking he was a Hermetic practitioner if we compare him to Fludd and others who were. It is easy to suggest he may have been hiding that aspect of his beliefs. Anyway, it's always something I try and detect.

Thanks for the link.

[Light-of-Truth]

9 hours ago, RoyalCraftiness said:

A great view of Bacon speaks of the imposture of the words of the old heretics in my favorite quote of his:

Thank you!! 😊

Thanks to everyone who shares on this forum. I really truly mean that with all of my heart and soul.

So I have had a wild trip in life. Bacon is in a way the most recent passion even though it was 26 years ago when Bacon took over my focus. I was on a path that was similar, in a way. Exactly the same, totally different. But the same.

Something new this week or past few weeks for me. A well known topic, well studied, but maybe the biggest new concept in my reality in a year;

Alchemy

Yea, of course I have heard of it. Looked and even gazed at the engravings and art. I picked up a few keys over all these years, at least enough public knowledge where hearing a term would not be new to me. Not that I had a clue. LOL

Alchemy on my mind.

My one brother is down from Vermont. When my Dad was a little stronger he and I would fly up to party in VT when the leaves were turning. It's been a while since we've seen my brother.

My Dad, me, first born, and Tom a year and a half younger. My Dad turns 88 in May.

Alchemy. The three of us have not been together in a few years. Chemistry has been magic.

Funny how sometimes when timing is good, your current lesson has other feeds coming in.

Few days ago on a thread I questioned what is next after we pierce the "Time/Space" veil.

For way too long I really never looked for another level. Work, family, so on, I settled in as someone who earned at least a place to relax piercing somewhat I might be the final veil.

Yea, right! LOL

....... . . . . . . .

Its not just from the B'Hive that I am being bombarded suggestions about Alchemy. All directions, 3D. As I learn, obviously Bacon was more than informed on Alchemy.

Long story short, I am now an Alchemist in training. 😉

My brother, in the center, is holding an aluminum pan of hot steamed fresh crawdads from Louisiana.  He is Aries and he is holding the Fire. I'm holding an alchemical brew that all three elements or stellar objects share.

I am one of two sons, so is my Dad the "Sun"?

Or am I as the first born (my Mom was not a virgin obviously), the Son (Sun)?

I have the energy today to be the Sun, but some days I can barely even think about being a Moon even though I am a Cancer.

I thought I knew as much as I needed to about alchemy; "An old concept before computers..."

You won't make Gold out of Lead. But one of my favorite Grateful Dead phrases is:

Now I don't know, but I been told
It's hard to run with the weight of gold
Other hand I have heard it said
It's just as hard with the weight of lead

 

I feel like I am kind of old to start a new path while maintaining the one I am in.

 

Who knows, maybe I am young.

 

Kate, you are synced in, the entire B'Hive has been in sync today. 3-3, March 3.

 

Coincidence, March 3 is Day 62 where Sonnet 26 goes into 27.  One thing is Line 364 the last Line of Sonnet 26 and then Sonnet 27 begins with Line 365. Not that it has any significance... 😉

 

Alchemy

 

If I told you the song by the Beatles that was playing right now in my headphones, oh my. (I usually go to XM Radio in put in DEE to get to Deep Tracks...)

 

All these years, missed a clue until lately. It is the right time, I get it. 😉

 

Pink Floyd on now. Turned up full blast in my headphones. The brew is brewing...

 

OMG, if there is more than this, which obviously there is, I can't wait!!!!!

 

What is the Philosophers Stone? A giant beautiful Arrowhead made from a Diamond.

 

Pink Floyd, so loud in my headphones! "Pigs" is playing and Yann made Pigs a big thing in my day hours ago.

 

"Dee, I am 'on Dee"

 

Diamond. I often think I am dreaming all this. CJ mentioned the library in the video was "eye candy". I had already took those images and considered them candy for my brain. Names I've heard with intros and images of the books.

 

We are basically around the world in Sonnet 27, or within a short few hours.

 

WEary with toyle,I hast me to my bed ,
The deare repose for lims with trauaill tired,
But then begins a iourny in my head
To worke my mind,when boddies work's expired.
For then my thoughts(from far where I abide)
Intend a zelous pilgrimage to thee,
And keepe my drooping eye-lids open wide,
Looking on darknes which the blind doe see.
Saue that my soules imaginary sight
Presents their shaddoe to my sightles view,
Which like a iewell (hunge in gastly night)
Makes blacke night beautious,and her old face new.
   Loe thus by day my lims,by night my mind,
   For thee,and for my selfe,noe quiet finde.

 

This Sonnet has taken on a new life for me. I may share that thought with a few. There is something crackling here.

 

I know I am rambling, but in 24 hours this reply will mostly lost in the stream. It will be available on Google for any Foole like me to stumble on. LOL

 

My takeaway from these pasts weeks; It's good to put one's feet up and enjoy reaching goal. But there is always another one to pursue.

 

I am looking forward to an Alchemy adventure. Fell into it.

 

Sorry for typos, but "WEary with toyle,I hast me to my bed ,"

 

 

 

 

[A Phoenix]

Hi Rob,

Great to see you with your family and happy. Emotional!

Pink Floyd (with the Beatles, Led Zep and U2) are my favourite band and Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here and Animals my three favourite albums of all time. I have been playing Shine On You Crazy Diamond since I was a young boy-must have played it thousands of times. It still makes me tingle: 'When you were young you shone like the sun...'. 

[RoyalCraftiness]

11 hours ago, Light-of-Truth said:

Thank you!! 😊

Thanks to everyone who shares on this forum. I really truly mean that with all of my heart and soul.

So I have had a wild trip in life. Bacon is in a way the most recent passion even though it was 26 years ago when Bacon took over my focus. I was on a path that was similar, in a way. Exactly the same, totally different. But the same.

Something new this week or past few weeks for me. A well known topic, well studied, but maybe the biggest new concept in my reality in a year;

Alchemy

Yea, of course I have heard of it. Looked and even gazed at the engravings and art. I picked up a few keys over all these years, at least enough public knowledge where hearing a term would not be new to me. Not that I had a clue. LOL

Alchemy on my mind.

My one brother is down from Vermont. When my Dad was a little stronger he and I would fly up to party in VT when the leaves were turning. It's been a while since we've seen my brother.

My Dad, me, first born, and Tom a year and a half younger. My Dad turns 88 in May.

Alchemy. The three of us have not been together in a few years. Chemistry has been magic.

Funny how sometimes when timing is good, your current lesson has other feeds coming in.

Few days ago on a thread I questioned what is next after we pierce the "Time/Space" veil.

For way too long I really never looked for another level. Work, family, so on, I settled in as someone who earned at least a place to relax piercing somewhat I might be the final veil.

Yea, right! LOL

....... . . . . . . .

Its not just from the B'Hive that I am being bombarded suggestions about Alchemy. All directions, 3D. As I learn, obviously Bacon was more than informed on Alchemy.

Long story short, I am now an Alchemist in training. 😉

My brother, in the center, is holding an aluminum pan of hot steamed fresh crawdads from Louisiana.  He is Aries and he is holding the Fire. I'm holding an alchemical brew that all three elements or stellar objects share.

I am one of two sons, so is my Dad the "Sun"?

Or am I as the first born (my Mom was not a virgin obviously), the Son (Sun)?

I have the energy today to be the Sun, but some days I can barely even think about being a Moon even though I am a Cancer.

I thought I knew as much as I needed to about alchemy; "An old concept before computers..."

You won't make Gold out of Lead. But one of my favorite Grateful Dead phrases is:

Now I don't know, but I been told
It's hard to run with the weight of gold
Other hand I have heard it said
It's just as hard with the weight of lead

 

I feel like I am kind of old to start a new path while maintaining the one I am in.

 

Who knows, maybe I am young.

 

Kate, you are synced in, the entire B'Hive has been in sync today. 3-3, March 3.

 

Coincidence, March 3 is Day 62 where Sonnet 26 goes into 27.  One thing is Line 364 the last Line of Sonnet 26 and then Sonnet 27 begins with Line 365. Not that it has any significance... 😉

 

Alchemy

 

If I told you the song by the Beatles that was playing right now in my headphones, oh my. (I usually go to XM Radio in put in DEE to get to Deep Tracks...)

 

All these years, missed a clue until lately. It is the right time, I get it. 😉

 

Pink Floyd on now. Turned up full blast in my headphones. The brew is brewing...

 

OMG, if there is more than this, which obviously there is, I can't wait!!!!!

 

What is the Philosophers Stone? A giant beautiful Arrowhead made from a Diamond.

 

Pink Floyd, so loud in my headphones! "Pigs" is playing and Yann made Pigs a big thing in my day hours ago.

 

"Dee, I am 'on Dee"

 

Diamond. I often think I am dreaming all this. CJ mentioned the library in the video was "eye candy". I had already took those images and considered them candy for my brain. Names I've heard with intros and images of the books.

 

We are basically around the world in Sonnet 27, or within a short few hours.

 

WEary with toyle,I hast me to my bed ,
The deare repose for lims with trauaill tired,
But then begins a iourny in my head
To worke my mind,when boddies work's expired.
For then my thoughts(from far where I abide)
Intend a zelous pilgrimage to thee,
And keepe my drooping eye-lids open wide,
Looking on darknes which the blind doe see.
Saue that my soules imaginary sight
Presents their shaddoe to my sightles view,
Which like a iewell (hunge in gastly night)
Makes blacke night beautious,and her old face new.
   Loe thus by day my lims,by night my mind,
   For thee,and for my selfe,noe quiet finde.

 

This Sonnet has taken on a new life for me. I may share that thought with a few. There is something crackling here.

 

I know I am rambling, but in 24 hours this reply will mostly lost in the stream. It will be available on Google for any Foole like me to stumble on. LOL

 

My takeaway from these pasts weeks; It's good to put one's feet up and enjoy reaching goal. But there is always another one to pursue.

 

I am looking forward to an Alchemy adventure. Fell into it.

 

Sorry for typos, but "WEary with toyle,I hast me to my bed ,"

 

 

 

 

The Philosopher's stone is a pearl of true wisdom. If you possessed it you would begin to know the workings of the "Opera Omnia". If you think back to the Kunrath illustration where you pointed out the Hermes figure standing at the gate of the alchemical citadel with elbows pointed out forming a square in which his spine represents the division of two triangles that make up the square (the duality), the representation is itself containing symbolic references to a philosophical idea. There is a great German literary tradition that touches on this knowledge which is an extension of the Arthurian legends. The quest has been compared to the search for the Hoy Grail by the great German Mediaval poet Wolfram Von Eschenbach in his epic poem "Parzival".  One of my favorite descriptions of this literary reference is from Joseph Campbell (the mythologist once retained by George Lucas when he wrote Star Wars). Joseph Campbell: Literary Meaning of The Holy Grail - YouTube

The Hermetic tradition served as an avenue to approach the material sciences. It is with parallels between substances and the imagined character of astronomical bodies that we first began to think of chemical reactions which we saw as transformations of character. We tried to bridge our beliefs about the spiritual to nature and we ended up reshaping our beliefs. Occasionally, there have been revivals in Hermetic thinking when the world has sought correction from the existing dogma of the times. When we are faced with intractable problems there is an inner alchemist in all of us that tries to see things from a very high perspective (a spiritual one).

Family tends to contain, what are to us, neutral angels. We can accept that all sorts of dualities may be present and still retain the philosophical wisdom to keep the relations loving and intact. In those close relationships we are practitioners of the way of the middle. If we could ever come to see ourselves as brothers to each other then it might be possible to extend that in reach to the globe. This is the intent behind the forming of brotherhoods where men can be baby-stepped into a certain degree of understanding and compassion of the other with an exploration of things that unite us (none are quite as effective as the fact we are all born and will all die).

When we are deeply in love we are also almost blind to dualities. There can be major differences between two people, and still the feeling is that there is more oneness possible than anything else. It is not hard to see why Philosophers have for long expressed the idea that we are drawn towards harmony and to the places in the Universe where it is found. Go to these places and experience them. They are in music, in relationships and even in physical places where many things conspire to present to us echoes of beauty which resonate with our senses and our minds. 

When Bacon imagined a Utopia he would have considered what one should find there. There ought to be echoes of various harmonies in his suggestions.

 

Edited March 4 by RoyalCraftiness

[Allisnum2er]

Forgive me, this is probably something that you already know, but talking about Bacon/Shakespeare and Astronomy, I have just learned that the moon of Uranus was named after characters that appear in the works of William Shakespeare and ... Alexander Pope !!!😲

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Uranus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moons_of_Uranus#/media/File:Uranian_rings_scheme.png

Uranus and its first two moons were discovered by Sir William Herschel.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Herschel

The name of the other moons were chosen by his son John Herschel.

And we can't talk about Herschel without talking about the Royal Astronomical Society and the Freemason's Tavern.

https://blog.archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/2020/01/06/the-herschel-archive-at-the-royal-astronomical-society/

https://editions.covecollective.org/place/freemasons-tavern

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons'_Tavern

Interestingly enough, Ouranos (the origin of the name Uranus) was named Coelus or Coelum by the Roman.

And "Coelum, or beginnings" is one of the Chapter ( Chapter 11) of Francis Bacon's Book " The Wisdom of the Ancients".

From my point of view, it gives me an answer to one of my questions regarding one of the "errors" in the 2nd Edition of "Recueil d'Emblèmes divers" by Jean Baudoin (1648).

The famous Emblem linked to Icarus, or Charybdis and Scylla or the Middle Way appears two times in the Book.

Evidently, it appears associated with the Chapter XXXVI dedicated to the Middle Way.

And it should appear a second time associated with the chapter dedicated to Astrology.

https://www.earlyprintedbooks.com/misc/emblem-book/

But in the 2nd Edition of the Book, the Emblem is associated with Chapter 33 about ... The Beginnings (Coelum) ! 🙂 

URANUS (OURANOS -COELUM) - 33 (BACON)

😊

 

 

[Allisnum2er]

I have just learned that the initial name given by Herschel to the planet URANUS was Georgium Sidus in reference to George III and that the name URANUS would have been inspired by JOHANN BODE.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/uranus/in-depth/

And here is some interesting things about JOHANN BODE :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Elert_Bode

 

[Light-of-Truth]

14 minutes ago, Allisnum2er said:

I have just learned that the initial name given by Herschel to the planet URANUS was Georgium Sidus in reference to George III and that the name URANUS would have been inspired by JOHANN BODE.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/uranus/in-depth/

And here is some interesting things about JOHANN BODE :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Elert_Bode

 

Cool! My mother's side of the family are Bode's from Germany. I think I may poke around Ancestry.com and see if we have a connection to Johann. 🙂