Kate

Ah, okay Eric. Thanks for taking the time to offer such a thorough reply. I'm always happy to eat my words. I apologise, I got this wrong. I hope you manage to track it down. Let me know if I can do anything to help. Warmest regards, Kate

Hi, I happened by chance across a thread on a Physics Forum that is from 2004 - 18 years old. The main poster on the thread is a guy (?) called Quddusaliquddus, a dyed in the wool Baconian who bats back every opposition, the more you get into it, with interesting detail you’d find on this forum, and he links to Sir Bacon too. Maybe this person is one of you! Anyway, I’m posting because for those of you who don’t know I study cycles, and 18 and 18.6 years are both significant lunation cycles. When something like this happens I’ve noticed it can sometimes be a pointer to pay closer attention, because something that was missed 18 years ago can come around again. Although I know everyone has a backlog of things to read, it may be an idea to whisk through these pages to see if there’s something missed for 18 years or a link to something forgotten. It is only 4 pages, but one warning, it’s full of adverts (and not the most highbrow of forums but still there may be a gem in there). https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/actual-author-of-shakespeares-works.27541/ Kate

These are two areas I paid attention to that matched Also what’s going on here I think the medal has been added in. I’m sticking with my theory it’s a copy of another. An artist like Van Sommer (Somer?) surely wouldn’t have let something like this remain in one of his pictures ? Like you say Eric, to be continued!

I like these two (I laughed at the first).

This search function may be of use to someone https://5099.sydneyplus.com/final/Portal/Default.aspx?lang=en-US

Hi Eric I'm afraid that my instincts are that this is a fake. The entire story Ella conveys made my 'fake' detector go off. The frame looks very new! Are you 100% sure it has been authenticated. If so I may have to eat my words, but I did a reverse search on Google and Tin Eye (nothing) and then looked online and found this link. https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47dc-7fd2-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99 One of the pictures is by Van Sommer but, not the one in the bottom right. I immediately saw the similarities to the one you have posted to the one the bottom right and so copied it for the purposes of overlaying and sure enough, this (below) is what you get. It seems that the picture above is a doctored picture of the one in the link. The shape of the hat, the ruff, the shoulders, the clothing, the shadows/hair all fit precisely with the one I found. The only slight discrepancy is in the face and if you look at the picture that Ella Horsey is claiming she purchased, his face has been lengthened slightly. Overall something is very odd about the face as if the outline shape has been copied and then the face blurred or stippled around the chin. If she's not spinning a yarn, she may well have purchased it believing it to be authentic, but either these are by the same artist who used one as a template for the second and slightly altered one, or it's an out and out fake - and I'd suggest a relatively new fake or facsimile, 1900s (?) Happy to be proved wrong To compensate for being such a terrible cynic, everyone reading should be sure to look at these 30+ pictures of FB and some of the cuttings. (Use the arrows to navigate). It's a treasure trove. https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47dc-7fd2-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99/book?parent=821fce80-c533-012f-f82a-58d385a7bc34#page/1/mode/2up Kate .

Here are some more basic geometry shapes that can be used as overlays. In Freemasonry the ‘point in the centre’ is of the utmost symbolic importance, so it’s a good idea to always try and find what would be the centre of the area you are looking at. Using shape in this way could/would sometimes have been used as a way of highlighting specific text, but just how often it was used and where, it’s almost impossible to say - but it can be an interesting exercise to try. This one is aligned to the bottom line of the two parallel ones and from here you can add in other shapes, like crosses and triangles (shaded ones too) or the Y Another shape that is of huge symbolic significance in Freemasonry, is the two interlocking triangles. I used this shape and rotated it. It points to the double AAs (under the double AAs in the header) but I think this is just a coincidence. You can also see the M that is formed, but I don’t think there’s any huge discovery with this shape, I’m just showing ways to use them. Finally, for now, this is another important shape. The importance of 108° cannot be overstated, as all those familiar with Rosicrucian symbolism know. Both numbers 72 and 108 and their association with the heavens/planets and the turning of the Earth and the movement of the Ages, are fully explained in my ebook. Kate PS. I have noted in my files that the images are from Frank C. Higgins (c1914) but nothing more specific. Many of his books are available freely online as PDFs and very, very widely shared but mindful that we always need to credit people, I’ll certainly credit or remove if someone reading objects. I’m pretty sure it’s all public domain or I would have marked it in my files. Can you even copyright shapes? I think it’s like letters and numbers? The overlaid ones are mine.

I have just re-read this thread in greater detail than when I skimmed it the first time. I was thinking, maybe there should be a new topic where the top 5 (or 10) pieces of evidence (that Bacon was Shakespeare) can be listed for anyone visiting the forum who is unsure how to find the most compelling evidence out of the mountain that is referenced. What AP wrote up above would surely be on that list. K

Ha! Just came onto the forum to post these pics and saw there is already a thread on them! It may be that the guys, or one of them, is a Mason or it may just be a nod towards FB’s scientific prowess, but methinks the numbers in sets of three point to the former! For those who have read my ebook, The Secret Work of an Age (see review page) the fact this company called ‘Line’ have used the eye, that shows how light crosses over at the optic chiasm, is intriguing! Kate

MANICULES Hi I said I’d get back to you about this. I’ve finished it - with myriad side trips to look at other things that were referenced. As I mentioned before, they were common for hundreds of years before Dee. It says “The manicule has a gestural function that extends beyond its straightforwardly indexical. In Francis Bacon’s typically suggestive phrase, gestures are “transient hieroglyphics”: they have a live and passing quality that has led Jean-Claude Schmitt to lament the fact that “Gestures, like words, belong to an ephemeral world.” It also says “Bulwer realized that his hand-symbols could also prove useful wherever people needed to communicate secretly (and remember that Bulwer’s books ...his visual key to gestures involving the fingers was “ordered to serve for privy cyphers for any secret intimation” (Chirologia 188).” And “There are fingers being used as calculators and calendars, as companions to singing and speaking, as aids to memory and prompts for meditation, as maps of mortal fortune and emblems of divine truth—every kind of textual finger, in fact, except the good old marginal pointer”. So I guess two different gestures in manicules could also be a way of writing FB or other code, if each can represent a letter in the alphabet. There’s a massive reading list at the end that I can’t hope to get through, but it’s all fascinating. Here’s the link again http://www.livesandletters.ac.uk/papers/FOR_2005_04_001.pdf Kate

🤔 Hmm, in that book it says: “Initially a sixteenth- and seventeenth-century practice of decorative embroidery on religious texts or presentation copies for royalty” Which makes you wonder if the crown is because it was a presentation copy or a ‘double truth’

Here’s more about hand gestures. It was a form of cipher all in itself https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A30105.0001.001/1:11.1?rgn=div2;view=toc

Nice crown above his head 😉

Welcome Eric, great to have new people contributing to the forum. I’ll share your video. There’s a synchronicity to this too as late last night I was looking at this. It’s dated 1625 and is the cover of Essays.

Hi I’ll respond to this tomorrow as I never finished that paper as I got waylaid by one on manicules from Atlas Obscura (see my tweet on it yesterday - I’ll put the link here too later) and then I got into re-reading AP’s “Did Bacon die in 1626”. I’m bog-eyed! However, I am replying now as I’ve just read an old post, way up above, that I missed. In fact I missed lots. It is querying the handwriting in the MS 22601. I spent hours ( 🤫) comparing the handwriting to Dee’s known handwriting over many years and saw numerous similarities. One thing I noticed repeatedly though, which didn’t fit anything of Dee’s that I could find, was this D. It’s unmistakable and was seen throughout. It’s as if the stem is slightly s-like. Hope it is not too blurry. If we can find who else writes with D’s like this, we have the author! This is much clearer

Wow! That’s some find! Well done super-sleuth

Ah ha! I may have to retract that, just found this I'm currently reading the whole thing at http://www.livesandletters.ac.uk/papers/FOR_2005_04_001.pdf It's called a Manicule I'll let you know if I find anything really interesting. He's already said he first came across it with John Dee, but soon realised it was quite widely used., and decided to research and write about it/them.

My eyesight is suffering. Since this forum started I have never read so may books in quick succession! That document is a book in itself. Thanks for sharing. I skimmed the second half but it's clear the author is putting the best available guesses together. I am even more convinced it was a book belonging to Dee now, having read this. I think it's possible it was all written or copied by Dee.

This probably needs to be moved from 'Oxford - For or against' topic but I don't know how to do that. I looked at this book and read it from cover to cover. Thanks for the link. Dee's marginalia shows up in a few places, so I took a closer look and I don't think it is things he has added while reading, I think he wrote some, if not all of this book, even though pages are attributed to other authors. Here's why in 3 images, with notes written on them by me. So the left page is definitely Dee, the right is the anonymous book. Finally I spotted this It's easy to quickly dismiss that this could be Dee until you look at all the examples online of his writing (some of which are above). The samples show he switched between incredibly neat and messy and his D's g's and f's constantly switch tails. To my mind it is the drawings of the pointing hands and the spirals which appear on around 4-6 separate pages that make me think this is fully or partially written by Dee - despite the attributions by the British Library (ultimately it does say it's anonymous though). The flourishes on the N and K's and R's may have been popular at the time but they are almost identical in angles, pressure etc. What do you think of the Shake Singleton reference? K

Boom! 💥👏 Nothing whatsoever against Jake, just grateful for your knowledge AP that you are able to put that one to bed , once and for all.

Thanks Yann. Love what you found here K

Both Rick and Yann’s summations are fascinating. The layers and layers of symbolism are never ending in the esoteric Rosicrucian/Freemasonic tradition! Ultimately though, all lead to information about the “oneness” and unity behind all manifestation. Here’s my understanding. The dual principle is incredibly important because from one point when you move that point in any direction you will have formed a line and now have a start and end point, an Alpha and Omega, separate to each other but still connected. So unity become duality. This represents the fact that life only began from the one point of light with the action of movement. A straight line can be the diameter of any circle, but two points of a curved line creates a circle with no ending or beginning. Everything moves, everything is spiral and cyclical. So whenever we see two figures (or two A’s or the two pillars or 11 etc) it represents the duality principle and the entire esoteric tradition centres around the Sun as oneness and Mercury (Hermes, Horus, Hiram, Thoth, Jesus, Son etc., call Mercury by any of these names) as the now separated but still unified carrier of the wisdom and truth of God (the force behind creation). In the 345 triangle, which (via the 47th proposition) gives us a key to the universe and its sacred geometry and movements, 5 is the hypotenuse and linked to Horus/Mercury. However Mercury represents all the dualities known to Man - light/dark, Male/Female, Active/Passive, Good/Evil, Mortal/Immortal etc., etc., and is always represented by twins and 5 + 5 = 10 The only letter in the Hebrew Alphabet to sound like God (strictly we should say G-D) is is IOD, JOD or YOD and this has a value of 10. (10th letter) Venus is also seen as = 5 Beauty/harmony because of its astronomical movements which form a 5-pointed star. Mercury is seen as the androgynous unity of male/female so 5+5 sees the two twins, male and female uniting in the Godhead/Light . IOD/YOD is the divine light. In the ritual the last letters of Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum spell out AOM; a highly esoteric Hebrew triplicate that equates to OM and AUM both of which mean Light. When the candidate/initiate is raised he’s arises from darkness into the light. He’s overcome or become aware of the dark side of his own human nature but also he’s reborn to an understanding that his soul is immortal and that he’s an emanation of the central (immortal) light. Mercury and Venus both spend time as a morning star, heralding the arising of the Sun. Venus is the brightest planet after the Sun. Mercury is the fastest planet, hence the swift messenger. So this 5+5 =10 is another reason why 55 is a highly significant number. 555 is too for other reasons (threeness/trinity) and this is why the Washington Monument obelisk is 555ft high. All this - and loads - more in my ebook 🙂 Sonnet 55 seems to me to be referencing immortality and I like the idea it has a twin counterpart sonnet. Kate

Just watched a couple - very interesting.

I think it’s important for any Baconian to understand Sacred Geometry, as then it becomes more obvious how shapes were used to reference or encode things. I’m not a great fan of ‘commercialised’ films like this, but this is a neat primer. For example the Masonic Triple Tau encodes the number 720 and you’ll see why that number is important in this film https://gaia.com/share/cl1hnyfmj001y0j8xb4nffi83?rfd=pec6iV&language[]=en This link should take you to a 27 minute film called Sound of Creation Additionally, I will repost here the cover I was playing around with (on my phone) elsewhere in this forum a while back. It’s not exact as I didn’t spend much time on it, but I feel it’s important to put it in under this film link in this section of the forum. It’s definitely a possibility that Divine Proportion was utilised in someway. These are just examples to spark ideas. I’m not saying this is a ‘discovery’ just to be alert for Platonic Solids and Divine Proportion and associated numbers and angles to encode ~ Kate Then these are the ones Rob (who knows all about Geometry) kindly did for me on his computer.

Can you possibly share the link to where this is? Many thanks