Kate

There is a link within the PDF above to John Dee's books: The Writings of John Dee (1527-1608): http://www.esotericarchives.com/dee/index.html

A great resource http://www.digital-brilliance.com/contributed/Karr/Biblios/ccinea.pdf

Sounds familiar! 🙂

https://news.sky.com/story/florida-school-district-to-only-teach-excerpts-from-shakespeare-under-new-regulations-12936427

Actually, take a look at Alex's Bibliography. There's a book in there for you Yann as it's all in French. http://digital.onb.ac.at/OnbViewer/viewer.faces?doc=ABO_%2BZ155129008 It is highly possible that the shapes on the tunic in Crptomenytices are figures from pages like this: (This needs a tag to ciphers)

Amazing work AP. I wish we could get the present day family at Wilton House to see all this!

I have added in the B in case it wasn't readily apparent. You have to admit there are also a lot of B shapes on his tunic on the left and you could make up the word Bacon - but it could be pareidolia! Thanks for confirming the location of the quote, Eric. There's an interesting paper that I have as a footnote in my ebook. I may have posted it before but it's by Alex Boxer. The title of Cryptomenytices translates to: "Nine Books of Cryptomenysis and Cryptography by Gustavus Selenus: in which the most explicit unraveling of Steganography written in the past by the admirable man of extraordinary intelligence, John Trithemius, Abbot of Spanheim and Würzburg, in a magical and enigmatic manner, is presented, with interspersed contributions of the author and others, not insignificant inventions." Alex has translated Steganographia. When he began he wrote this short paper. https://archive.bridgesmathart.org/2016/bridges2016-561.pdf He had discovered that "As early as the 17th century, Robert Hooke (of Hooke’s Law fame) proposed that John Dee’s infamous angel diaries were not transcripts of his crystal ball seances, but rather secret intelligence reports encrypted with Trithemian steganography for dispatch to his sovereign, Queen Elizabeth I " and Steganographia was actually an elaborate ruse for conveying hidden messages, as may other books of the period have been. In other words, all that weird stuff that John Dee and his sidekick Edward Kelley and their Enocian Magic were ridiculed for, may all have been a cover for transmitting secret intelligence. This raises the question as to whether other books that we see from other authors of the time, may not be what we think they are at all. Anyway apparently, very recently someone has been offering Alex large sums to purchase the Domain name of http://trithemius.com/ but he says he'd never sell at at any price. I wonder who is wanting it and why? I think we should start adding tags to posts so that we can cross reference them but not sure how to add them (Rob?)

Amazing. I always read these things with a tinge of sadness though, because these guys were doing what we are doing now (spotting clues and anomalies) and we are still no further forward in changing the opinion of a large proportion of the general public or academia - and many of the authors of these tomes are long dead🙁 Will people still be talking about his doublet when we are long gone? Anyway, two things. Love this quote. It appears on the back of which book’s title page? I’m not clear. I did what he said and looked at your enlargement in negative mode… I guess this could be a B or 3 (it’s flipped upright) but this is as clear as I could get it. Maybe Rob has more wizardry! I haven’t read that other booklet. Will do. Thanks for posting all this Eric.

I don’t normally recommend Wikipedia as the best source of research, but for anyone interested in a broad picture about Rosicrucianism it’s worth reading from top to bottom as it’s all in one place. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism I agree with AP further up about how they operate. I’m not a great fan of the more modern organisations like AMORC or Builders of the Adytum (BOTA) but they get the job done and spread good works. On that wiki page you’ll see lots of contradictory things, but it’s my understanding that the aim has always been to promulgate the perennial wisdom and keep it alive, and this has been done for centuries prior to the 1500/1600s under a Red Cross insignia linking back to the first centuries AD. My understanding is also that there are 13 members in an order ( 8 originally prob based on 7 planets plus 1) so 12 and the thirteenth is the ‘Master’ - all based around “God” as creator plus the 12 signs of the zodiac and the 13 lunations in a year. Hence the myth of Arthur and his 12 Knights of the Round Table (celestial sphere). This all stems from Kabbalah In Gematria (Jewish numerology), both the words ahavah (love) and echad (one) equal 13. ~ Kabbalistically, the number 13 indicates the ability of the Jewish people to rise above the influence of the 12 signs of the Zodiac (12+1=13), not being bound by the influences of the cosmos. I believe Bacon and his friends took these ancient influences and wisdoms and shaped them into the Baconian Rosicrucian/Freemasonic shape we see today - and it’s certainly no coincidence that 13 is an important number in America! Ultimately then, “Rosicrucianism’ became an umbrella term for those intent on a reformation of religion and a way to enlighten souls as to their own power and freedom to think for themselves. A form of Mystic Christianity. Christian in this sense being one ‘Christed’ (illuminated) by the light of awareness that all is one.

This picture in The First Sacrifice!! https://sirbacon.org/archives/baconiana/1978_Baconiana_No.178(1).pdf Seen it before but had forgotten about it, so thought it’s worth sharing in this thread for any ‘onlookers’, now or in the future.

I personally think it’s just the style of the day but defer to whatever Eric thinks or unearths.Wow though, that edition of Baconiana that you linked to is a gem! ‘The First Sacrifice’ article in particular. I’ve obviously read AP’s excellent papers but hadn’t seen this in full before. https://sirbacon.org/archives/baconiana/1978_Baconiana_No.178(1).pdf

Here is a list of all of the Knights (and Ladies) of the Garter from the start in 1348 https://www.heraldica.org/topics/orders/garterlist.htm We know FB is seen wearing the Lesser George medal ( see Peter Dawkins' PDF on this) on the frontispiece of The Advancement of Learning, but his name is not on the list. You've got to love Claude! (Claude.ai)

They liked their wings, that’s for sure!

They definitely look that way, Rob. Comparing the two, the batwing one looks more like a childish rendition of Mercurius!

Also, they have a 1614 copy here, so you could send them an email. Seems the info is logged but it’s not digitised yet. They do have later copies digitised. https://embassyofthefreemind.com/en/library/online-catalogue/detail/d53fbc6b-1c42-74d7-fa0d-ff17bf6b759e/media/undefined

https://archive.org/details/famafraternitati00andr Does this help?

I clearly don’t know my Bible. Googling it seems Achitob was linked to Solomon. Maybe everyone knew that already 😬

Love it, Rob! While here, this just came down my feed I think the wings looked like bat wings on the Wotton picture, but were perhaps just badly drawn. This is from The British Museum collection dated 1530-1562. Btw Gemini, on the left, and Virgo, on the right, are both ‘ruled’ by Mercury. Virgo is the 6th sign (division of 12) and so that’s prob why there’s a 6 there.

Hiya, I read through all the posts since yesterday - there’s a lot! The absence of a ‘like’ or whatever from me shouldn’t be taken as my not liking or agreeing or disagreeing with what was written. I just kept scrolling and don’t want to wade back through them all. As usual, everyone made good points. Rob, AI does seem to be predisposed to some biases, but having said that imo ChatGPT speaks like a Stratfordian, and Claude not so much! Bard and the other one, copilot or something pilot, I find those two absolute rubbish. The first two react well to being challenged. RC: I have seen a lot of quotes, elegies etc, many of them thanks to AP, which say what a great poet Bacon was. So I do take issue with that. Does anyone remember that old book from the era we found last year that listed the best poets of the time and Francis Bacon, Knight was near the top, but Shakespeare was also on the list further down! That’s a weird one. I was also very surprised by that Wotton quote too. The one that said Bacon was no Plato when Bacon (according to Peter Dawkins) was known as the 3rd Plato. It’s these direct old quotes that are so important to discovering the truth and building up a true picture and not a fanciful one formed from something akin to a couple of centuries of Chinese Whispers. I agree with RC that we can’t just use flimsy evidence. It weakens trust if everything isn’t scrutinised and admissions made that this or that may just be just a stunning coincidence or wishful thinking. Case in point, I knew I’d seen the word Achitob somewhere. What are we to make of this? It’s from a book much later than Bacon’s life but appears to be a word connected to Kabbalah. Was it used to make an oblique nod to Bacon as a founder of speculative Freemasonry and/or is the fact that it forms an anagram (Bacohit) really valid as being Bacon hit (hid) or just conjecture. I think we have to put everything out there, but leave space to be wrong or for things sometimes just to be a coincidence if non-Baconians are going to trust Baconians. It’s just a cult if we don’t practise discrimination and say this is a possibility, rather than this adds up to 33 so must be code for Bacon. Hope everyone gets my (lengthy) drift! Bacon clearly masterminded the works of Shakespeare as part of The Great Work’. He was an Imperator of the Rosicrucians and headed the Invisible College, I’m not disputing that! https://archive.org/details/SanctuaryOfMemphisMarconisEJ

The winged headband is from Hermes/Mercury. It can be a helmet or a headband. He also has wings on his feet.

So somewhere in this discussion on Henry Wotton (he should really have his own thread) there was a post about the poem signed Ignoto. The poem previous to that had also been finished off with the word Ignoto (unknown) but had been revealed in a later printing of the book to be by Francis Bacon. It was my view that the second one was not by Bacon. At that time I went to AI and put in the words and asked who wrote it. AI is not infallible, but it came back and said it seems to be in the style of John Donne. To cut a long story short because I ask these chatbots lots of questions in different ways (to make sure it’s not a false reply) it could not say for sure who wrote it, but favoured John Donne over FB! Although one reply thought it may be one of Wotton’s own. Anyway, skip forward to this week, I went looking for stuff about Donne and found this book. I’m sure AP will have read this but not sure if it’s been linked to in the thread above. It may have been but with a different cover? Putting who wrote that second Ignoto poem to one side, I found a number of pages where Bacon is mentioned (but some you won’t find them if you search Bacon as he’s referred to only as the Lord Chancellor or the Chancellor etc). Here are two. “Such is the celebrity of the name of Bacon, that to mention it is to fuggeft an idea of tvery thing great and fuper-eminent in knowledge .He is juftly ftyled by Sir Henry VVotton " Scientiarum lumen, facundise lex," in the infcription on his monument, in the church of St. Alban's.” Has this book been found before? Have I missed it further up the thread? https://archive.org/details/izaakwaltonslive00walt

Sorry, I confused matters. I meant a link to where the longer discussion on Wotton continues. So I looked and it’s page 4 of this thread. We’ve got two active threads on Wotton, and it’s a bit confusing. I have something else to post but I’ll head over there to do it.

Just in case anyone lands on this thread in future years. The discussion about Henry Wotton continues/continued at length on another part of the forum - (Rob can you add the link - not sure how to do it, thanks). While I’m here, through some synchronicity I just landed on this page, selling this book. Wasn’t searching for him!

Oh the plot thickens! You can see the buttons are similar to the Droeshout on this one, and as Rob points out, its the same outfit as the other image. I had to smile ruefully at the synchronicity of seeing Musk’s X (lots of them!) around the clock on the other!